Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS
Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> Tue, 13 March 2018 22:51 UTC
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From: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 15:50:48 -0700
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Subject: Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS
To: Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: IETF QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>
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On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 12:20 PM, Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 9:52 AM, Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com> wrote: > >> >> I'd like to focus on the architectural question for the moment. I >> think there's broad -- though not universal -- agreement that the >> stream 0 thing is not great, but a fair amount of debate about >> what the right architecture and architectural principles are. >> It's not really productive to talk about schedule impact until >> we understand what the right thing is. >> >> > Hi Eric, > > As it stands, you've identified a pain point, and you've made a proposal > to rebase a key part of the architecture on the basis of that pain. > > Folks agree with you that it is a pain point, but all of the feedback > you're getting that this isn't worth the schedule slip is, fundamentally, > also feedback on how bad the pain is. The message I read (and, to be fair, > participated in sending) from this thread is "not bad enough for this". > It's clearly bad enough that Christian, I, and I'm sure others would like > you to create a PR to incorporate what improvements from your proposal can > fit into the current structure. If that's the conversation you want to > have, I'm happy to jump in. > Hi Ted, I appreciate your concern with the schedule, and I do recognize that there are people who think that this is too late to discuss, but I also heard people who thought it was worth exploring, which is what I'm asking for at the moment. Even if I were to concede that that were not the case -- which I don't -- it's not possible to have a discussion about what we can do to address these issues without understanding the architectural principles we are trying to follow, which requires actually discussing the points I raised above. -Ekr > But I don't think we can ignore the signal that the current state of > affairs actually works and that changing away from it so completely isn't > worth the (new) pain. I think we will lose both momentum and expertise if > we start over to this extent at this juncture, and I'd rather we did not. > I'm particularly worried that the uncertainty around this could kill the > productivity of the hackathon and London meeting, and that we won't recover > until the next interim, if then. > > Not talking about that as we analyze this seems to me to be the wrong > choice. > > regards, > > Ted > /no hats > > >
- Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Eric Rescorla
- RE: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Lucas Pardue
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Ted Hardie
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Salz, Rich
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Eric Rescorla
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Eric Rescorla
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Mark Nottingham
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Eric Rescorla
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Ian Swett
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Kazuho Oku
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Subodh Iyengar
- RE: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Hannes Tschofenig
- RE: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Kazuho Oku
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Marten Seemann
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Mirja Kühlewind
- RE: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Lubashev, Igor
- RE: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Lucas Pardue
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Patrick McManus
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Eric Rescorla
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Christian Huitema
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Eggert, Lars
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Roberto Peon
- RE: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Mike Bishop
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Eric Rescorla
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Christian Huitema
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Victor Vasiliev
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Subodh Iyengar
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Ted Hardie
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Martin Duke
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Phillip Hallam-Baker
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Brian Trammell (IETF)
- RE: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Christopher Wood
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Leif Hedstrom
- RE: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Gabriel Montenegro
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Christian Huitema
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Eric Rescorla
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Ted Hardie
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Eric Rescorla
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Ted Hardie
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Philipp S. Tiesel
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Mark Nottingham
- Re: Proposal: Run QUIC over DTLS Eric Rescorla