Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-duke-quic-v2-00.txt

Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> Tue, 27 April 2021 23:06 UTC

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From: Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2021 16:06:38 -0700
Message-ID: <CAM4esxSxRxX=G3pmm-0A5YHaXHbAeVgDBvLYdR=Zc2U3fEqXUg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-duke-quic-v2-00.txt
To: Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net>
Cc: IETF QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>
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I'm mildly resistant to this, but I filed
https://github.com/martinduke/draft-duke-quic-v2/issues/4

On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 3:32 PM Martin Thomson <mt@lowentropy.net> wrote:

> Well you beat me to it.
>
> Another nit to add to the pile: it might pay not to use 2 as the version
> number here.  Pick a random number, like 0xfaceb00c or something.
>
> As for the labels we use for HKDF, tweaking those might be a good idea.
> We didn't do that for draft versions, but a completely new version would
> benefit from better separation.
>
> On Fri, Apr 23, 2021, at 03:52, Martin Duke wrote:
> > Hello QUIC,
> >
> > I believe it was MT that threatened to do this a long time ago, but to
> > work through compatible version negotiation I wrote up a trivial QUICv2
> > (below) that just changes the initial salts. This caused me to figure
> > out a couple of things about VN that may have been obvious to others
> > but not to me.
> >
> > TL;DR we made the right decision to keep both in the draft.
> >
> > 1. One very possible world is one where firewalls ossify on expecting
> > v1 in the first packet, but don't care about subsequent packets.
> > Compatible VN is well-designed for this world, as Client Initials (and
> > 0RTT, sadly) can be v1 essentially forever and subsequent packets can
> > be whatever we want.
> >
> > 2. If all versions are compatible, choice of VN method is essentially
> > up to the client, but not quite deterministically: it can pick either a
> > likely supported version or an unlikely one. If unlikely, the server
> > will either accept it or send a VN. If likely, the server MUST use
> > compatible VN to change the version, since it can't send a VN packet
> > that contains the initial version unless it doesn't have full support
> > for it.
> >
> > Anyway, this v2 draft is available for your consideration if people
> > want to quickly iterate a new version, and/or we need a vehicle for
> > fixes to v1.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Martin
> >
> >
> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> > Date: Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 10:22 AM
> > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-duke-quic-v2-00.txt
> > To: Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>
> >
> >
> >
> > A new version of I-D, draft-duke-quic-v2-00.txt
> > has been successfully submitted by Martin Duke and posted to the
> > IETF repository.
> >
> > Name:           draft-duke-quic-v2
> > Revision:       00
> > Title:          QUIC Version 2
> > Document date:  2021-04-22
> > Group:          Individual Submission
> > Pages:          5
> > URL:
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-duke-quic-v2-00.txt
> > Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-duke-quic-v2/
> > Html:
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-duke-quic-v2-00.html
> > Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-duke-quic-v2-00
> >
> >
> > Abstract:
> >    This document specifies QUIC version 2, which is identical to QUIC
> >    version 1 except for some trivial details.  Its purpose is to combat
> >    various ossification vectors and exercise the version negotiation
> >    framework.  Over time, it may also serve as a vehicle for needed
> >    protocol design changes.
> >
> >    Discussion of this work is encouraged to happen on the QUIC IETF
> >    mailing list quic@ietf.org or on the GitHub repository which contains
> >    the draft: https://github.com/martinduke/draft-duke-quic-v2.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> >
> > The IETF Secretariat
> >
> >
>
>