Re: The first octet

Dirkjan Ochtman <dirkjan@ochtman.nl> Mon, 06 August 2018 08:10 UTC

Return-Path: <dirkjan@ochtman.nl>
X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B42B129619 for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 01:10:54 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oARf3O1o7tim for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 01:10:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from enrai.xavamedia.nl (enrai.xavamedia.nl [217.115.195.245]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B2B0127598 for <quic@ietf.org>; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 01:10:51 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wm0-f43.google.com (mail-wm0-f43.google.com [74.125.82.43]) by enrai.xavamedia.nl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E213090007D for <quic@ietf.org>; Mon, 6 Aug 2018 10:10:49 +0200 (CEST)
Received: by mail-wm0-f43.google.com with SMTP id o18-v6so13352357wmc.0 for <quic@ietf.org>; Mon, 06 Aug 2018 01:10:49 -0700 (PDT)
X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlH2WadmYw+jAjyhrqEx/dpOwzQoy8rcujv8jxZWFKtqsjLaW21M xe3CLdioXF7YU+w4ANQ/15XUHH+s4aiekAFVuGA=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpcImNQJITwVhZn0t0MiWDfKfoVXaWm64uGMydMpAV2iXJXetpgUSOti8Zp8AmDa+kZSVus3DFV9+4+ITJ/kA7A=
X-Received: by 2002:a1c:2d54:: with SMTP id t81-v6mr11860569wmt.31.1533543049737; Mon, 06 Aug 2018 01:10:49 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CABkgnnVFYMjWDk6zEEA8T_6qg+6qO9yAwVF70foMj4bXEdBaqQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CABkgnnVFYMjWDk6zEEA8T_6qg+6qO9yAwVF70foMj4bXEdBaqQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Dirkjan Ochtman <dirkjan@ochtman.nl>
Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 10:10:37 +0200
X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: <CAKmKYaCn298fL0B3zTn1tC9sxwQ9Mg5NNutxJYC8UrP07XJw=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKmKYaCn298fL0B3zTn1tC9sxwQ9Mg5NNutxJYC8UrP07XJw=A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: The first octet
To: martin.thomson@gmail.com
Cc: quic@ietf.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ba3fd00572bfd0ba"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/RNEWGzh5yn0Lw8CdD7Vvc--q4Yw>
X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27
Precedence: list
List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group <quic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2018 08:10:54 -0000

On Mon, Aug 6, 2018 at 7:56 AM Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
wrote:

> For those who read this far, if you have opinions on what principles
> should drive this design, please respond here.  If you have a proposed
> design (or designs) and can explain the principles that are expressed,
> that's OK too.  If this gets enough feedback, I might arrange a call
> for interested parties.
>

I haven't dug deeply into this, but I have been wondering about enabling
alternatives to TLS for integrity and confidentiality. Notably, I think the
Noise protocol variants are looking very interesting into this space.
Assuming that the current stream 0 design makes it possible to somewhat
generically swap out TLS for something and that Noise provides the right
primitives to fit that conceptual API, it seems reserving some bits in the
long header packets might help enable this?

Regards,

Dirkjan