Re: Why does ATSSS need MPQUIC?

Matt Joras <matt.joras@gmail.com> Fri, 23 October 2020 21:56 UTC

Return-Path: <matt.joras@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7957C3A0969 for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 23 Oct 2020 14:56:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.086
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.086 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ks58XN8cSHaY for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 23 Oct 2020 14:56:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com (mail-lf1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9DA1C3A0971 for <quic@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Oct 2020 14:56:38 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id l2so3854308lfk.0 for <quic@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Oct 2020 14:56:38 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=zcyHg0tfuxIyt4PsifwAu9vHSVIrUbX5t1YgYAs24w8=; b=cVo/KGZEYMltnDwOalLa8xTHOHYz9mqNxLyaFdG1Z9yElMOI+OmVzD28vWwyRxiv4M 4FWjH2vv46UAIXfvOvZWfNr95WD5h7XGMGQEmMhrQbXWZ990BwSKiRYO9vMseiKXmUrL 4U7wE9gC9d9gxaQxFh7Bpo70ynqiRR3ycaQmcMT6AHucdmpeBf8Xs/SyXyayleR5JFBo N4sbf68aTQ9hyapvTfJGPzEJDKKv0H8je6l950Wsr2R9JLSJEv4MGkD+C/KPUlhXz/81 WOMgvkzcccNE2tz3ilS1CuBvp6EzPDAI0VLzLjMQ4PSYXAcOE4KZ6jRHD6rKwNzY0UB0 5L3Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=zcyHg0tfuxIyt4PsifwAu9vHSVIrUbX5t1YgYAs24w8=; b=XD+iIp+HpncSqvUdmTqL5qBYzsLgD+ks/cRyiUYhQl0BGfqEek0bfw4McywyEZzE5B aOdF+DvOzEeufp1AjKFOz1Z5DXcbIEngKgSXo0+zZrgUCmrJPZtr/ADRDNPx9CJlk7aM 0vm3cCuIR/EJImO7IvOfrfmhK7IJ3HS4534kOcVcCkMfIJF1CZ9L4FEJilI0BAFEmUAP l3BalHaHLnJpJdBXtAL1biHpxTktXQ0VisbIzKQAImp7bsZyODVpUU53XLpLU+5QdnUc 3SYTTwj6mXLtk3MQlOrQsUw1m6N4M8Qja7/9s+QIIHpiFOZACOcEZXn1LRrrv0uaae3K QBsQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531TDpjXwfuJZ0Nd1P4Tqs6DuFRsczBunDI0jsceXx8VLsj6zNrM jeFnNtIUvHKgs+eIJ0GcFSaWYqBDWhQLt+64hpc=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyBzcJ6JmN1j/8FzvSnUHh3QZjPwv75DbgnmhzCUwfot1QsRIM7ikQxUwVN8rzLDx+rH7ADXPxTpXG+PrL7evs=
X-Received: by 2002:a19:cb52:: with SMTP id b79mr1304963lfg.34.1603490196890; Fri, 23 Oct 2020 14:56:36 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAPDSy+4qkg=mT2AKrBFYgXzFJzgjmDtQHndbYO1WyF+V261_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAPDSy+4qkg=mT2AKrBFYgXzFJzgjmDtQHndbYO1WyF+V261_cQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: Matt Joras <matt.joras@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2020 14:56:25 -0700
Message-ID: <CADdTf+ggfn6V5zm9Q71pyU354HWDj32=FpPm1nXhh+H21XMk4g@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Why does ATSSS need MPQUIC?
To: David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: QUIC <quic@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000096279805b25da741"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/WW4o0IC5hQ_c8eakLTEd5kj5SUk>
X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group <quic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2020 21:56:52 -0000

It's gotten somewhat buried in the various threads and updates that have
flown around about ATSSS, but I found the following draft pretty helpful
for explaining the various ways it would work for them, including multiple
QUIC connections:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bonaventure-quic-atsss-overview-00.
Section 7.1.4 covers that case specifically.

Matt Joras

On Fri, Oct 23, 2020 at 2:39 PM David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> Thanks for the great conversation yesterday.
> Thinking about it more, I'm realizing I might be
> misunderstanding something: why does ATSSS
> need MPQUIC at all? Why not simply use two
> separate QUIC connections, one per interface?
> The only difference is that the scheduler would
> live right on top of QUIC instead of inside QUIC.
> If I recall the history of MPTCP correctly, the
> scheduler was placed in the kernel because of
> the cost of context switching from userspace to
> kernelspace. This consideration doesn't apply
> to QUIC since most QUIC implementations are in
> userspace. I'll note that for this to work, we'd need
> a way to transmit path information - that could use
> a separate protocol, or a small extension to QUIC -
> but either way that sounds like much less
> complexity than MPQUIC.
>
> Thanks,
> David
>