Re: [Wish] [AVTCORE] Video ingest over QUIC
Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> Fri, 16 July 2021 18:36 UTC
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From: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 13:35:42 -0500
Message-ID: <CAKKJt-f=W+fNzZXGhmvZWm9td_JWyUUS1fN-FsVNLtAyK5psKA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Wish] [AVTCORE] Video ingest over QUIC
To: Mike English <ietf@englishm.net>
Cc: Victor Vasiliev <vasilvv=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Roberto Peon <fenix=40fb.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "avt@ietf.org" <avt@ietf.org>, "wish@ietf.org" <wish@ietf.org>, juberti@alphaexplorationco.com, Alan Frindell <afrind=40fb.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "quic@ietf.org" <quic@ietf.org>, Kirill Pugin <ikir@fb.com>, Luke Curley <kixelated@gmail.com>
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This is, of course, why ADs get paid the big bucks (ha!), but On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 12:10 PM Mike English <ietf@englishm.net> wrote: > I would personally be very interested in a "video over QUIC" working group > or mailing list. > Martin Thompson said (in a reply that, I think, only went to the QUIC mailing list(*)) that he thought this was big enough to BOF (which doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed at DISPATCH at IETF 111), but does say something about what a mailing list could be used for. Offhand, I can imagine: - discussion of the existing https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-kpugin-rush-00.html draft - discussion of potential scope for a BOF proposal - discussion of proposed text for a BOF request Could I ask what the people who are expressing interest in a mailing list are thinking about? Best, Spencer (*) email is archived at https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/ocCm8E-GzP_pn4LBcJyKQeN7GRU/. The directness of this draft is perhaps what's most interesting to me. > In particular, the absence of out-of-band signaling / session > establishment stands in striking contrast with another UDP-based media > ingest option: WebRTC. > > The signaling needed for session establishment (and the diversity of > implementations for such signaling) has historically been a barrier for > WebRTC adoption as an ingest protocol outside of the browser context. > WISH-WG is working to improve that situation for WebRTC of course, but a > new QUIC-based ingest protocol presents an opportunity to sidestep some of > those known-issues by making an architectural decision up front about > whether that style of session management is necessary in a video > contribution workflow. > > I'm hoping others with more experience on these lists can speak to the > history and tradeoffs associated with those approaches, but I just wanted > to call attention to the aspect of the draft that seemed most notable to me > as an operator of a low latency streaming platform where WebRTC egress and > ingest capabilities are provided, but where RTMP is still the de facto > ingest protocol of choice for many users. > > Thanks for sharing this work! > -Mike > > On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 12:32 PM Victor Vasiliev <vasilvv= > 40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > >> Hi Alan, >> >> Excited to see this draft! >> >> Since this isn't technically in scope for either avtcore, wish or quic >> working groups, what would people think about making a new mailing list for >> video over QUIC? >> >> Cheers, >> Victor. >> >> On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 3:27 AM Justin Uberti < >> juberti@alphaexplorationco.com> wrote: >> >>> +1 >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 1:35 PM Roberto Peon <fenix= >>> 40fb.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Seems like a good idea to me, unless there is a home that is already >>>> well suited! >>>> >>>> -=R >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From: *QUIC <quic-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Luke Curley < >>>> kixelated@gmail.com> >>>> *Date: *Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 1:16 PM >>>> *To: *Alan Frindell <afrind=40fb.com@dmarc.ietf.org> >>>> *Cc: *"quic@ietf.org" <quic@ietf.org>, Sergio Garcia Murillo < >>>> sergio.garcia.murillo@gmail.com>, "avt@ietf.org" <avt@ietf.org>, " >>>> wish@ietf.org" <wish@ietf.org>, Kirill Pugin <ikir@fb.com> >>>> *Subject: *Re: [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hey Alan, thanks for publishing your protocol! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Twitch has also been working on a video over QUIC protocol, albeit >>>> primarily for video distribution instead of contribution. We're very >>>> interested in collaborating on RUSH and producing a new standard for live >>>> streaming! Would there be broader interest in forming a video over QUIC >>>> working group? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 12:04 PM Alan Frindell <afrind= >>>> 40fb.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Sergio, thanks for your interest in the draft. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I’m interested in seeing a video ingest protocol standard that >>>> leverages QUIC as a transport, has some partial reliability support, and is >>>> less connection-oriented so that servers can go down for maintenance >>>> without impacting ingest reliability or having arbitrarily long drain >>>> times. We published our RUSH draft to help kickstart the conversation but >>>> we’re open to feedback and modifications if they help advance those goals. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -Alan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From: *Sergio Garcia Murillo <sergio.garcia.murillo@gmail.com> >>>> *Date: *Tuesday, July 13, 2021 at 9:02 AM >>>> *To: *Alan Frindell <afrind@fb.com> >>>> *Cc: *"quic@ietf.org" <quic@ietf.org>, "wish@ietf.org" <wish@ietf.org>, >>>> "avt@ietf.org" <avt@ietf.org>, Kirill Pugin <ikir@fb.com> >>>> *Subject: *Re: [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Alan, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I think that the correct place for discussing it is AVTCORE as Bernard >>>> has indicated, as WISH is not chartered to implement any new media >>>> protocol. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The draft is very interesting and I would be willing to collaborate, >>>> what is your main interest? Do you want to try to publish it as it is or >>>> would you be accepting feedback and include modifications? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Best regards >>>> >>>> Sergio >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> El mar, 13 jul 2021 a las 17:37, Alan Frindell (<afrind= >>>> 40fb.com@dmarc.ietf.org>) escribió: >>>> >>>> Hi, for several years, Facebook has been using its own video ingest >>>> protocol over QUIC from our apps to our infra. While we’ve spoken about it >>>> before, we just now published a draft documenting how it works: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-kpugin-rush-00.html. >>>> >>>> The protocol leverages the advantages of QUIC transport, and features a >>>> partially reliable mode using only QUIC v1 RST_STREAM. >>>> >>>> We welcome your feedback >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> -Alan Frindell >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Wish mailing list >>>> Wish@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wish >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Wish mailing list >>>> Wish@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wish >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance >>>> avt@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt >>>> >>> -- >> Wish mailing list >> Wish@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/wish >> >
- Video ingest over QUIC Alan Frindell
- Re: [AVTCORE] Video ingest over QUIC Bernard Aboba
- Re: [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC Alan Frindell
- Re: [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC Luke Curley
- Re: [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC Roberto Peon
- Re: [AVTCORE] [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC Justin Uberti
- Re: [AVTCORE] [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC Victor Vasiliev
- Re: [AVTCORE] [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC Lucas Pardue
- Re: [Wish] [AVTCORE] Video ingest over QUIC Mike English
- Re: [Wish] [AVTCORE] Video ingest over QUIC Maxim Sharabayko
- Re: [Wish] [AVTCORE] Video ingest over QUIC Sergio Garcia Murillo
- Re: [Wish] [AVTCORE] Video ingest over QUIC Nils Ohlmeier
- Re: [Wish] [AVTCORE] Video ingest over QUIC Martin Thomson
- Re: [Wish] [AVTCORE] Video ingest over QUIC Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [Wish] [AVTCORE] Video ingest over QUIC Lucas Pardue
- Re: [Wish] [AVTCORE] Video ingest over QUIC Martin Duke
- Re: [Wish] [AVTCORE] Video ingest over QUIC Alan Frindell
- Re: [Wish] [AVTCORE] Video ingest over QUIC Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: [Wish] [AVTCORE] Video ingest over QUIC Alan Frindell
- RE: [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC Das, Dibakar
- Re: [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC Kirill Pugin
- RE: [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC Das, Dibakar
- Re: [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC Lucas Pardue
- Re: [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC Roberto Peon
- Re: [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC Kirill Pugin
- Re: [Wish] Video ingest over QUIC Kirill Pugin