Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image (was Re: Packet number encryption)
Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen <mikkelfj@gmail.com> Tue, 06 February 2018 15:09 UTC
Return-Path: <mikkelfj@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C63912D7F8 for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 6 Feb 2018 07:09:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.698
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L94eDGRHG1j6 for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 6 Feb 2018 07:09:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-io0-x232.google.com (mail-io0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4EF551243FE for <quic@ietf.org>; Tue, 6 Feb 2018 07:09:18 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-io0-x232.google.com with SMTP id 25so2794884ioj.9 for <quic@ietf.org>; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 07:09:18 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yEQpjHDdwhhgsnJXPMLpURwNeKfRu2PYC1V5z59hUqI=; b=eq30si0evv1EBpE7+j1BodCfdCB6CDvFYwTKG5F0dz7w+OZWhT+9EXyzav1ZtSC/8f utpVOVsouhxK1PdCgoswrjFjUXWU9J6i5KtV+/Ql/BgyPIsEvbhKD3CbtNHD5vB+f97q VZZo4IU+9BJYrf+c8x3WqYF+rQwitFNVuRUNMHduhjHN3+gjzCFk6TCUji3OqhKOeS63 +a7cWRBMU7RJ3T/4eCx4syzepwYQsKNxqvk/XBqTIXDj/ccfRybU2qh/3HTOUsHOhDJg dC/E1KwrPhegbJObjGk+ooGM3oBD4Lofro9IwdyD9lJgiNQXD2vpGiw0jD05iLzfl7Z6 5VLA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yEQpjHDdwhhgsnJXPMLpURwNeKfRu2PYC1V5z59hUqI=; b=mJNqB6rgsVANemMHbzASxOnnWbavtSmocAIDHxyFji/YejLVdke4M6tei9UFUas+Ex HP9hqUHMiwoZBqAt4QBDYGScVGBPaFAgP2wkwLZnKlOPlklWzXbIb59ZdD7BCGR53dnU oWLrrJok0SXUSWl5CEBuGj8owIKfylhfq2EUkMP6w/X06ghV07u9r+lbky7bmLh/MSm0 Hn4n/O5PLm8c2I8RzCDdi1/5cLGD0bfG5MotccFxd9Rk2g0sx3DhTqLYLdhxGQ182NaF fowpOIm1VvlU4Zvfiaz/1Q2Cw+LnbRqMUTEPiFjc9VLhfYKrjeYc+ucEPlHvJIbOblvI N35A==
X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPB/Ly0CfUE3kgzIsHIVcCtPud1Q3dicEYnv3wvyX/irl6zTRKoy PooHdeooTINbGX9bnQYByUwj2auU3RTDeTysysY=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x2257xf98BsH7unQIrltZLPrNZ4cDipos6jcqb0tLBiH+Q/drg/rU/q+/d9nkUZlRjpNIU0aqfuryeXSkNWrfNm8=
X-Received: by 10.107.168.25 with SMTP id r25mr3288183ioe.16.1517929757737; Tue, 06 Feb 2018 07:09:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: from 1058052472880 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 6 Feb 2018 07:09:17 -0800
From: Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen <mikkelfj@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAN1APdcuKSLYw4Odyc4g=+4_+ojsNekeqmM9eYqxykkfxRx3Cg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABkgnnVyo3MmWtVULiV=FJTnR528qfY8-OmKGWAs0bCvri-a_g@mail.gmail.com> <1F7FB3B8-A94C-4354-9944-FB09FB8DB68B@trammell.ch> <CABcZeBMbwdwyC9TxxHBLYaZKfNB-FG2wCGjqUZ_mNR-A1R47FA@mail.gmail.com> <9096e5ec-581e-875a-b1dd-bff0b05206fd@huitema.net> <CABkgnnWRQSAufwPss+qf=xAzCwRYeNNH8XLPm3yFaHxOb+ba4g@mail.gmail.com> <BF80500A-6277-45DC-8525-9C3FE138B76D@tik.ee.ethz.ch> <5A7191E0.6010003@erg.abdn.ac.uk> <5214AD93-8376-4B25-922F-AF5551CC2E95@netapp.com> <F990E064-E6F8-41A3-B791-F776C9955E15@nokia.com> <CAGD1bZab0GaZFsHwC+nw3AxxC4VusxMJ6oDanzk3dSDdWKAXdw@mail.gmail.com> <2C515BE8694C6F4B9B6A578BCAC32E2F83BA1443@MBX021-W3-CA-2.exch021.domain.local> <BY2PR15MB07757473DB9788558B902EB5CDF80@BY2PR15MB0775.namprd15.prod.outlook.com> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD861B7F@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> <e529144067624fcba636fc8c24ee3ff4@usma1ex-dag1mb5.msg.corp.akamai.com> <BY2PR15MB07754D83A1721F2BD742359BCDFE0@BY2PR15MB0775.namprd15.prod.outlook.com> <2CD9DC43-D69B-43F0-8474-DFE798850A52@akamai.com> <CAGD1bZaUuNxqpDkn62B0wWcFD8=mCUWrAwWGG-rAOxH7Mf1=cQ@mail.gmail.com> <CY4PR21MB01334E30C7AF6AE75F58EEFDB6FE0@CY4PR21MB0133.namprd21.prod.outlook.com> <CAGD1bZaxrqzdkk0wxRaULwOTgg6wnrSrXNBK31s4uxdozaACBA@mail.gmail.com> <CAGD1bZbOAaSBcQw4nVtGuwRunaAW8MYHq9yPxNN6DdKHzt5HtQ@mail.gmail.com> <CANatvzx+uDHMV5XS=OuVYBqe_RYX=EmVWAmjuONS8BpNYCPweA@mail.gmail.com> <5233815B-00F3-4961-ABB8-505906258B89@trammell.ch> <CAN1APdcuKSLYw4Odyc4g=+4_+ojsNekeqmM9eYqxykkfxRx3Cg@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Airmail (420)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2018 07:09:17 -0800
Message-ID: <CAN1APdehS5MvNVQS-KQPjFGoLt5qJFOUK0SRm9a_NnkzLkfQLA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image (was Re: Packet number encryption)
To: "Brian Trammell (IETF)" <ietf@trammell.ch>, Kazuho Oku <kazuhooku@gmail.com>
Cc: QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11427bca01162c05648c90ee"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/f3YH2TRJsQhIRd1fXeU_j1DoVqs>
X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group <quic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2018 15:09:20 -0000
This idea can be taken further: You can modulate the signal so you use multiple packets to encode a zero or a one for half the wave duration. For example 1 could be encoded as 0101 over four packets and zero could be encoded as 0011 over four packets. If there is any reordering, it would show up as an unexpected value in the pulse. You can take it even further and add error correcting codes into the sequence. Or likewise, you could generate a known random sequence such as PI, or perhaps simpler, an AES generated sequence. It is easy to sync the signal by hashing bits from multiple packets and therefore easy to detect any missing bits. If there is massive loss, a binary search can be conducted to find the location of the surviving packets. It sort of breaks down if every other packet is reordered but you could still handle that with some consideration. The signal could repeat with a period significantly larger that practical RTT rather than running an infinite sequence. Technically it would also make it possible to remove the packet number entirely because the number can be estimated by end-points and trial decrypted, but that would likely not be performance optimal.
- Packet number encryption Martin Thomson
- Re: Packet number encryption Ian Swett
- Re: Packet number encryption Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: Packet number encryption Eric Rescorla
- Re: Packet number encryption Christian Huitema
- Re: Packet number encryption Martin Thomson
- Re: Packet number encryption Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: Packet number encryption Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: Packet number encryption Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: Packet number encryption Eggert, Lars
- Re: Packet number encryption Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: Packet number encryption Martin Thomson
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Martin Thomson
- Re: Packet number encryption Roberto Peon
- Re: Packet number encryption Martin Thomson
- Re: Packet number encryption Ted Hardie
- Re: Packet number encryption Ted Hardie
- Re: Packet number encryption Christian Huitema
- Re: Packet number encryption Roberto Peon
- Re: Packet number encryption Martin Thomson
- Re: Packet number encryption Christian Huitema
- Re: Packet number encryption Jana Iyengar
- RE: Packet number encryption Roni Even (A)
- Re: Packet number encryption Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: Packet number encryption Roberto Peon
- Re: Packet number encryption Roberto Peon
- Re: Packet number encryption Martin Duke
- Re: Packet number encryption Kazuho Oku
- Re: Packet number encryption Christian Huitema
- Re: Packet number encryption Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: Packet number encryption Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: Packet number encryption Kazuho Oku
- Re: Packet number encryption Dmitri Tikhonov
- Re: Packet number encryption Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: Packet number encryption Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB/Cambridge, UK)
- Re: Packet number encryption Jana Iyengar
- RE: Packet number encryption Piotr Galecki
- Re: Re: Packet number encryption alexandre.ferrieux
- Re: Packet number encryption Patrick McManus
- Re: Packet number encryption Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB/Cambridge)
- Re: Packet number encryption Stephen Farrell
- Re: Packet number encryption Roberto Peon
- RE: Packet number encryption Piotr Galecki
- RE: Packet number encryption Roni Even (A)
- RE: Packet number encryption Lubashev, Igor
- RE: Packet number encryption Lubashev, Igor
- RE: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Christian Huitema
- RE: Packet number encryption Lubashev, Igor
- Re: Packet number encryption Stephen Farrell
- Re: Packet number encryption Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB/Cambridge)
- Re: Packet number encryption Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB/Cambridge)
- Re: Packet number encryption Stephen Farrell
- Re: Packet number encryption Willy Tarreau
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- Re: Packet number encryption Christian Huitema
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: Packet number encryption Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: Packet number encryption Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Reducing ossification through protocol design (wa… Brian Trammell (IETF)
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- Re: Packet number encryption Roberto Peon
- Re: Packet number encryption Roberto Peon
- Re: Packet number encryption Salz, Rich
- Re: Packet number encryption Jana Iyengar
- RE: Packet number encryption Roni Even
- Re: Packet number encryption Christian Huitema
- RE: Packet number encryption Roni Even (A)
- Re: Packet number encryption Roberto Peon
- Re: Reducing ossification through protocol design… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: Packet number encryption Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: Packet number encryption Kazuho Oku
- RE: Packet number encryption Roni Even (A)
- Re: Reducing ossification through protocol design… Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: Reducing ossification through protocol design… Salz, Rich
- Re: Reducing ossification through protocol design… Mirja Kühlewind
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: Packet number encryption Mike Bishop
- RE: Reducing ossification through protocol design… Mike Bishop
- Re: Packet number encryption Jana Iyengar
- Re: Packet number encryption Jana Iyengar
- Re: Packet number encryption Martin Thomson
- Re: Packet number encryption Ted Hardie
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- Re: Packet number encryption Marten Seemann
- RE: Packet number encryption Roni Even (A)
- Re: Packet number encryption Marten Seemann
- Re: Packet number encryption Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Re: Packet number encryption Kazuho Oku
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Gorry Fairhurst
- Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image (wa… Brian Trammell (IETF)
- Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image (wa… Brian Trammell (IETF)
- RE: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Roni Even (A)
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Kazuho Oku
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Stephen Farrell
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Kazuho Oku
- RE: Packet number encryption Mike Bishop
- Re: Packet number encryption Jana Iyengar
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Eric Rescorla
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Ian Swett
- Re: Packet number encryption Christian Huitema
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- Re: Packet number encryption Martin Thomson
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- Re: Packet number encryption Christian Huitema
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- Re: Packet number encryption Christian Huitema
- Re: Packet number encryption Marten Seemann
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Kazuho Oku
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Martin Thomson
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Kazuho Oku
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Kazuho Oku
- Re: Packet number encryption Brian Trammell (IETF)
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Christian Huitema
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Christian Huitema
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Kazuho Oku
- Re: Explicit measurability in the QUIC wire image… Kazuho Oku
- Re: Packet number encryption Victor Vasiliev
- Re: Packet number encryption Salz, Rich
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: Packet number encryption Mike Bishop
- Re: Packet number encryption Christian Huitema
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: Packet number encryption Mike Bishop
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- RE: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- RE: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Salz, Rich
- Re: Packet number encryption Eric Rescorla
- Re: Packet number encryption Eric Rescorla
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Eric Rescorla
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Ian Swett
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- Re: Packet number encryption Salz, Rich
- Re: Packet number encryption Ian Swett
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- Re: Packet number encryption David Benjamin
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: Packet number encryption Deval, Manasi
- RE: Packet number encryption Deval, Manasi
- Re: Packet number encryption Victor Vasiliev
- RE: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: hardware offload (was: Packet number encrypti… Ian Swett
- Re: Packet number encryption Ian Swett
- Re: Packet number encryption Martin Thomson
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- Re: Packet number encryption Salz, Rich
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: hardware offload (was: Packet number encrypti… Praveen Balasubramanian
- Re: Packet number encryption Salz, Rich
- RE: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Victor Vasiliev
- Re: hardware offload (was: Packet number encrypti… Christian Huitema
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: hardware offload (was: Packet number encrypti… Eggert, Lars
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: hardware offload (was: Packet number encrypti… Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: Packet number encryption Praveen Balasubramanian
- RE: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Victor Vasiliev
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Kazuho Oku
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- Re: Packet number encryption Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen