Re: Add deadline awareness to QUIC

[Ian Swett <[e-mail]>]

This looks like it might be conflating a few features, some of which are
very media specific and some which are more general, such as prioritization
and deadline awareness.

I may have missed it, but I'm not sure I understand why the deadline
awareness requires a new frame.  For low latency media, the sender
typically knows what the deadline is, so it has no need to communicate it
to the peer, unless this design has relays in mind.  If so, Media over QUIC
is even more the right venue for this.

For example, the Chromium QUIC code has had a ttl feature for a few years
that we've used for various use cases:
https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:net/third_party/quiche/src/quiche/quic/core/quic_stream.cc;l=1384

Ian

On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 11:03 AM Chuan Ma <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Hello Huitema and Sarikaya, thanks for the reply.
> You are correct that some of our designs are similar to MoQ answers. For
> example, we both use partial delivery to improve real-time app delivery.
> Actually, we sent the draft to the MoQ mailing list and discussed the
> detailed design and which layer to place the module. But our draft focuses
> on providing general deadline-aware transport service as a QUIC extension
> which is out of the scope of MoQ. MoQ builds on top of QUIC and is
> explicitly tailored to media delivery.
> We would like to hear the opinion of the QUIC community to see the need
> for such a *general deadline-aware transport service*.
>
> On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 7:12 AM Behcet Sarikaya <[e-mail]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 1:05 PM Christian Huitema <[e-mail]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Chuan Ma,
>>>
>>> Your draft aligns very much with some of the options investigated for
>>> "media over QUIC". Have you considered participating in that working
>>> group?
>>>
>>>
>> I agree, this looks very much like media transmission material.
>>
>> Behcet
>>
>>> -- Christian Huitema
>>>
>>> On 11/14/2022 10:20 AM, Chuan Ma wrote:
>>> > Dear all:
>>> >
>>> > I'm Chuan Ma from Tsinghua University. I want to discuss the deadline
>>> > awareness of the current application and whether we should add it to
>>> the
>>> > QUIC protocol.
>>> >
>>> > Applications may have specific deadline requirements for data
>>> transmission.
>>> > For instance, a video conference application may require sending the
>>> data
>>> > with a deadline of 200ms to enable live interaction. The application
>>> may
>>> > drop the data that misses the deadline, even if the data has already
>>> > reached the other end. In this case, it is possible to drop the data
>>> after
>>> > the given deadline from the sender to save bandwidth and decrease
>>> queuing
>>> > time. Deadline requirement is also helpful to offer deadline-aware
>>> > scheduling combined with QUIC stream priority. Such scheduling methods
>>> can
>>> > increase the punctuality of QUIC and allow more data to arrive on
>>> time. It
>>> > is possible to extend QUIC and offer deadline-aware transport as a
>>> service.
>>> >
>>> > Nowadays, deadline-aware data transmission is getting more and more
>>> > popular. Applications that emphasize real-time interaction, such as
>>> VR/AR,
>>> > gaming, and video conference, are drawing more and more attention. So
>>> > deadline-aware transport has a lot of use cases. However, currently,
>>> it is
>>> > the application that is responsible for realizing deadline-aware
>>> transport.
>>> > This transport service should be offered by the transport protocol but
>>> not
>>> > be left to the application. It is reasonable to provide such transport
>>> > service in a new transport protocol, and QUIC is a good base.
>>> >
>>> > We wrote a draft to show this idea in
>>> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-shi-quic-dtp/ and implemented a
>>> > protocol based on QUIC called DTP (Deadline-aware Transport Protocol)
>>> in
>>> > https://github.com/STAR-Tsinghua/DTP.git. We also built a live stream
>>> > prototype application to compare the performance between DTP and QUIC (
>>> > https://github.com/STAR-Tsinghua/LiveEvaluationSystem.git). We found
>>> that
>>> > DTP outperformed QUIC in improving data transmission punctuality and
>>> saving
>>> > bandwidth resources. We published the paper in ICNP22 and built several
>>> > systems like proxy and tunnel based on DTP. It would be a good idea to
>>> give
>>> > this method a try.
>>> >
>>> > We'd like to know what you think about this topic. Please let us know
>>> if
>>> > you have any comments.
>>> >
>>> > Best regards.
>>> >
>>> > Chuan Ma
>>> >
>>>
>>>