Re: Spin bit discussion - where we're at

"Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com> Wed, 22 November 2017 13:55 UTC

Return-Path: <lars@netapp.com>
X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C1E8129449 for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 05:55:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=netapp.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 47Kqez6hfmfd for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 05:55:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx143.netapp.com (mx143.netapp.com [IPv6:2620:10a:4005:8000:2306::c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9BCD1200FC for <quic@ietf.org>; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 05:55:48 -0800 (PST)
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.44,436,1505804400"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="229352568"
Received: from hioexcmbx01-prd.hq.netapp.com ([10.122.105.34]) by mx143-out.netapp.com with ESMTP; 22 Nov 2017 05:55:48 -0800
Received: from VMWEXCCAS05-PRD.hq.netapp.com (10.122.105.21) by hioexcmbx01-prd.hq.netapp.com (10.122.105.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 05:55:48 -0800
Received: from NAM03-DM3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (10.120.60.153) by VMWEXCCAS05-PRD.hq.netapp.com (10.122.105.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 05:55:47 -0800
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=netapp.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-netapp-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=un6hquHIqbN7qmo7Rk3ih9dp/LKFY68QCtgaMlq6WCo=; b=EcKBLGjX088tlpi5eaGQP84hVOo0jN2nKHc2McykWpk4S8xODL9IdgXk52XxZ8bq3ZR1dj70rUlcCVxkvlcitE4CfPYmSYEVZ/fwuXbylODJficxSjoTHGu8rx0Qx0J2Nh1tVjRZDM2GqjMFhOBfQkbk+5BmhUlPR5LWD7ckgnI=
Received: from BLUPR06MB1764.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.162.224.150) by BLUPR06MB1761.namprd06.prod.outlook.com (10.162.224.147) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.260.4; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:55:46 +0000
Received: from BLUPR06MB1764.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.162.224.150]) by BLUPR06MB1764.namprd06.prod.outlook.com ([10.162.224.150]) with mapi id 15.20.0260.004; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:55:46 +0000
From: "Eggert, Lars" <lars@netapp.com>
To: Salvatore Loreto <salvatore.loreto@ericsson.com>
CC: Roni Even <roni.even@huawei.com>, Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch>, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Spin bit discussion - where we're at
Thread-Topic: Spin bit discussion - where we're at
Thread-Index: AQHTY2jqp1VdukIM2U+G9HAjuBI8daMgHeUAgAAyYACAAAWjAIAAD76AgAAGt4A=
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:55:46 +0000
Message-ID: <9F6AAAF0-02BE-4538-8D4A-1C5B58841104@netapp.com>
References: <AFEE7BBA-E5DC-4064-AA19-33921EAF4C01@mnot.net> <21B07D8C-C4A1-4321-9E43-61C9DB9DC4CA@trammell.ch> <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD846139@DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com> <ACB9B7B7-CEAD-48E8-B8CC-0FE4F660DC79@netapp.com> <AM2PR07MB0563DF395D716F1B78DFECE4ED200@AM2PR07MB0563.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
In-Reply-To: <AM2PR07MB0563DF395D716F1B78DFECE4ED200@AM2PR07MB0563.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach: yes
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7)
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=lars@netapp.com;
x-originating-ip: [217.70.211.15]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BLUPR06MB1761; 6:VSTiK9NGQCeb6+SLY/A5BQw90SBIdL7TlqkHIkIQ4A18YVQPEMG/8qu/gXHfI5ZjYAAeLZgflZeSXCL+hMG5OFMlaAsNn4nGahdoY5Z9comd3ogBrctuBf7NqMuMMP5HYhVO7JnnCR9JTLsdhjuxhnCw9CpJuL+raHucxPoky8V+tNPg9HNYxIRyEXSkFN/Ht46/HYtCgMDIOTbCvSMkBY5cdo1jxtyKUbey3cnWeO1QcHBBoEkIgY8soLqsGVH+uy4L6xTZvCjfj/wL2468m9SFHFMr7GxCCJ1PDkFMP7/oKKdjiXZwuFBo3iskOheR43HvCSeORcQjxM5eSHHWDsC5SOTU1d+o8uUwhIZcZyI=; 5:oNV3s9/xppTvM0Q83ytukHQOGfNrL1UcuWDfF1HQlmJbMefhWN/PnbUqYCm3/RjeXfjEDAjHk85Sc49xPwLjIVRQWezVIhAotEWYM1/XZsAH8AGsdRSV5prDHfazBhwQuMNEODcFq/v82Uo7FMGAREGuzlUXNuiWK7CVNVxJk7w=; 24:ETDQ2zaWdQ7qk3pPe3jwRgOb1vM5hDScCUcVHG262YI/GZGb66apnsWyIGbBdZ+cwsChAzyZWJtyldL4+B5OYeeoKwy4Z14EmJfo3MQvEkk=; 7:r4cvjP2uy2ucTUgozglQBiQIKs9PeNaCEGCGMMexXMMO6c9+TYqYqyDMW87YdA5aC9k2x5v0ZEAFacPVpQqEM1woV/LZgUEJQyJxwxoYRSIFrjZ8rEFG7tAIM1ASEyTPBSnFPROcfzOJg+Qc9inCQgPfYPUrRaFFjHhoCsvl8o1m5X/eGhQCqyKKFftQMmevoObfV/cT4utSqVgB29b0dnlf1BIdAFvUtySi5ieU4U01fqOX6lXGhrYmDnoJyX9Y
x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SSOS;
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 29affe39-b245-4e20-4c5e-08d531b0bb40
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(4534020)(4602075)(4627115)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(2017052603199)(49563074); SRVR:BLUPR06MB1761;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BLUPR06MB1761:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BLUPR06MB1761619C4BEDA3A5F84FCD96A7200@BLUPR06MB1761.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(37575265505322);
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(102415395)(6040450)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(100000703101)(100105400095)(3002001)(10201501046)(93006095)(93001095)(3231022)(6055026)(6041248)(20161123555025)(20161123560025)(20161123558100)(20161123564025)(201703131423075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123562025)(6072148)(201708071742011)(100000704101)(100105200095)(100000705101)(100105500095); SRVR:BLUPR06MB1761; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:BLUPR06MB1761;
x-forefront-prvs: 0499DAF22A
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6009001)(376002)(346002)(189002)(377424004)(24454002)(199003)(106356001)(8676002)(102836003)(53936002)(316002)(105586002)(305945005)(68736007)(54906003)(97736004)(2906002)(81166006)(81156014)(6916009)(53546010)(6512007)(14454004)(36756003)(93886005)(86362001)(82746002)(478600001)(2950100002)(2900100001)(25786009)(4001150100001)(83716003)(4326008)(50226002)(8936002)(33656002)(561944003)(6436002)(77096006)(6246003)(5660300001)(101416001)(57306001)(3660700001)(189998001)(7736002)(6116002)(3280700002)(229853002)(3846002)(66066001)(50986999)(76176999)(99286004)(99936001)(6506006)(6486002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR06MB1761; H:BLUPR06MB1764.namprd06.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: netapp.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BF518C97-82CB-4B90-9901-14A2F5C36B87"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha512"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 29affe39-b245-4e20-4c5e-08d531b0bb40
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Nov 2017 13:55:46.6945 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4b0911a0-929b-4715-944b-c03745165b3a
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR06MB1761
X-OriginatorOrg: netapp.com
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/kUi6XGUUKbQmTrnyO2jePcnz-UE>
X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group <quic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 13:55:50 -0000

Hi,

On 2017-11-22, at 14:31, Salvatore Loreto <salvatore.loreto@ericsson.com> wrote:
> Indeed in the original mail Mark is on one side proposing to discuss it in London (instead that into the next interim)
> but at same time is leaving open the possibility to postpone the final decision until right before shipping the protocol to the IESG

I think the decision to not discuss it at the interim is based on the observation that the registered attendees at the interim are probably not representative of the overall WG constituency - we want to give all sides an ability to participate equally in the discussion.

> While I agree with Mark assessment that we can tip this into the short header relatively late in the game,
> I am concerned for this huge potential delay for a proposal that I would argue is already clear to all people actively involved in the QUIC design.
> 
> Can you please which are the next steps you are going to follow here?

I think what Mark tried to express is that the discussion on the Spin Bit can be mostly decoupled from the (large amount of) work remaining on the base spec. That is, we don't have to conclude the Spin Bit discussion significantly prior to the conclusion of the overall work (although we can), since it should be easy to merge at the later stages before handing things to the IESG.

Lars