Re: Call for Adoption: draft-pauly-quic-datagram

Mirja Kuehlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@ericsson.com> Thu, 12 December 2019 11:35 UTC

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From: Mirja Kuehlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@ericsson.com>
To: Kazuho Oku <kazuhooku@gmail.com>
CC: Lucas Pardue <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com>, Victor Vasiliev <vasilvv=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Jana Iyengar <jri.ietf@gmail.com>, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>, Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>, =?utf-8?B?TWlra2VsIEZhaG7DuGUgSsO4cmdlbnNlbg==?= <mikkelfj@gmail.com>, IETF QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Call for Adoption: draft-pauly-quic-datagram
Thread-Topic: Call for Adoption: draft-pauly-quic-datagram
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 11:34:58 +0000
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+1 -> I support adoption. 

I actually think in this case it has to be quite generic as we already have multiple use cases that need datagram support and I really hope we can cover all of them with the one extension (and not different ones).

But I agree that in other cases it probably important to also have a concrete use case (and implementation) for an extension before adoption.

Mirja



> Am 12.12.2019 um 02:24 schrieb Kazuho Oku <kazuhooku@gmail.com>;:
> 
> 
> +1 for adoption.
> 
> I agree that there's concern that the DATAGRAM draft is too generic, but the flip side of that is that it is good for running experiments / private protocols that only require datagrams. And we can rely on ALPN for what is being transmitted using the DATAGRAM frames.
> 
> To paraphrase, I consider DATAGRAM to be as useful as generic UDP is.
> 
> 
> 2019年12月12日(木) 10:07 Lucas Pardue <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com>;:
>> I support adoption of this draft but will note that in the abstract sense it is hard to reason about the design of DATAGRAM and hard to interop without an application of it. Since the round of call for adoption does not incorporate an application, I have concern about the scope.. I wrote up SiDUCK [1] as means to an end, there are probably better ways to make us comfortable as a WG.
>> 
>> [1] - https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pardue-quic-siduck-0
>> 
>>> On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 11:03 PM Jana Iyengar <jri.ietf@gmail.com>; wrote:
>>> I support adoption of this document.
>>> 
>>> This is a natural extension to QUIC and there are multiple implementations and side-conversations happening already, and as I understand it, there is some deployment experience. 
>>> 
>>> One note however. Per my read, this is the first extension that extends the functionality of QUIC beyond the charter's original conception of it for HTTP. Many things are possible with QUIC, but the things we want to standardize are the things that are likely to be used. There's no better argument for useful extensions than a discussion of actual deployment where it exists... It enables others to use it similarly, and importantly, it informs why the mechanism is designed so. I would have hoped for more active discussions around current uses of this extension where it exists, including deployment experience where it exists. Perhaps the authors can take this as feedback going forward.
>>> 
>>> - jana
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Dec 11, 2019 at 2:00 PM Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen <mikkelfj@gmail.com>; wrote:
>>>> Yes, datagrams are important for custom protocols.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 11 December 2019 at 22.49.23, Victor Vasiliev (vasilvv=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org) wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I support adoption of this draft.  We already support a version of this in gQUIC and I am willing to work on making sure it's interoperable with other implementations.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 11, 2019, 13:36 Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot....net> wrote:
>>>>>> This is a Call for Adoption of the following document:
>>>>>>   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-pauly-quic-datagram-05
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The Working Group has discussed this document for some time, most recently in Singapore.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Please state whether you support adoption of the document by the Working Group, and any additional information that you feel may be helpful.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This call will end on 15 January 2020.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mark Nottingham   https://www.mnot.net/
>>>>>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kazuho Oku