IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: Quic: the Elephant in the Room

Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com> Wed, 21 April 2021 13:58 UTC

Return-Path: <mike@fresheez.com>
X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7A5C3A28BB for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 06:58:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.749
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mtcc.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fm7KnRZ3WZIN for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 06:58:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-pg1-x533.google.com (mail-pg1-x533.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::533]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 602B63A28B9 for <quic@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 06:58:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-pg1-x533.google.com with SMTP id t22so29939027pgu.0 for <quic@ietf.org>; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 06:58:00 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mtcc.com; s=fluffulence; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=DiU86znO0Z4hjliApg+hWLFkNm4gKCzlpIUAzlcPBYc=; b=GVr8fW7C2fDIKZy1rvR0zQLlRrvx0Nyw3DEluq6qUrfskcE9NQMJkUFWpOvTRvIEXc kYZW5DmGChcV+rXYWsUEVnjkEvxhBLCzmdtq8k1qC9jfLBoxpTTiP0QXraEnhHeoTv4U nOGMpH1XJVSP4z4CLzOSZwbLw1KhNKERwuvXq33N253BIlGY90Rz7CHGAYk90bDne2qL sIZ4xUtbpWwzcIWT4u4K7fpf4GZft+472SnAReyReY0CmyAT7cIYaCjJVmF/QRvGWRZV YTVjSaJKIszl7YVJ7Sgesg1F8+gYp+sYGRR/wUBixRc8MteAeYPfnpkO8VrWqpS2hLCC ZnZA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=DiU86znO0Z4hjliApg+hWLFkNm4gKCzlpIUAzlcPBYc=; b=tHO1DFScM4Pm+R2xNyQg9hwtDUbBUy/0JQWVfRkJJ3jXMxjskJQRWYVLkkumwQ9kZx 9HNbWkwRiNcMePiLFn4ZJ4cdqEVEx8SaPuH0zsxvUZE4PL1luY9ySwJEBGP2Su0Yyb4A vZBC+DSRl2S2y1gO4Jfki11i5Ztz/XvPdxdfN/SBCwyEldO70Zp3ctQ4lusC/zz9G/cB yTujNxd+BVHdpwJXVjFFGVPzJOUc6Gx6ATEUxxAuGV1bD0zIOV6tcMQ+OZWpOaiRYlx+ mM18tbE0heMkkmK6lQpzCcudnvnxALORDcSEGw465PBA+0DnExwpXupjgLw/+bLJTHjw vCdQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531H1wippTeQcNMAdwNZ8SlyR4Xqr6+/AfBrrjXqNbj8CRfOyKvu 9gGO5F5cuob04f9bpP5q3JrbCg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzKU95cMiexSUN5w+98mlblzQUJvvsl2lOMlTC4AnXoj9vBkpJ374lpuyp4G97ripnE1xS+ng==
X-Received: by 2002:a65:6095:: with SMTP id t21mr21954713pgu.383.1619013478908; Wed, 21 Apr 2021 06:57:58 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mike-mac.lan (107-182-43-245.volcanocom.com. [107.182.43.245]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m7sm1916460pfc.218.2021.04.21.06.57.57 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 21 Apr 2021 06:57:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Quic: the Elephant in the Room
To: Eric Rescorla <ekr@rtfm.com>
Cc: Phillip Hallam-Baker <phill@hallambaker.com>, David Schinazi <dschinazi.ietf@gmail.com>, Matt Joras <matt.joras@gmail.com>, IETF QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>, Lucas Pardue <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com>
References: <311e3e67-2e87-1650-22b3-614378fbf88f@mtcc.com> <CADdTf+jRMfNo1EiFBj-fOeZJkKM2TCvN9yJFEmJEVcZj5JMD_Q@mail.gmail.com> <e5856173-5c7a-1f2b-3be0-b2a155786ff8@mtcc.com> <CALGR9oY0-aVT+Hv0gj45pxwH7zxTw=TVpQGqCVC2NFCa+y16JA@mail.gmail.com> <4191ed66-11e4-7ac6-bd0d-d4713dd0873b@mtcc.com> <CAPDSy+6rWkgB49RKThFCsBLdMjquBBX9=h-Mz9AMAknu=2KhEA@mail.gmail.com> <2c400bd6-30cf-c46f-6e87-9ca62ef25ed2@mtcc.com> <CAPDSy+55oPNi8DBkQO+XGyrBMMB4kMLtVnDVU75Myh116jnwbw@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBPDDLbOkVDLQy0JkOBDrOXop6RORQ5YQYdKxJ4QLg+6LQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAMm+LwiDA-DWCPwB+N-dxTs-cuQrtaKb=_wtc-CP=Ckn4_sg7g@mail.gmail.com> <9b21b764-bdd4-7d1c-a89f-b7d2e947fdb8@mtcc.com> <CABcZeBNW3zShZU=HrQA=oKr82UeNTQEr3P=9GkpnFgzaJoG19A@mail.gmail.com>
From: Michael Thomas <mike@mtcc.com>
Message-ID: <7a0f6733-d084-0d2b-d054-a3ed5890cdbd@mtcc.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 06:57:56 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CABcZeBNW3zShZU=HrQA=oKr82UeNTQEr3P=9GkpnFgzaJoG19A@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------4F1F5F211FB2F2586CDFA587"
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/pcrp_2FR0mEGHkxfuHZKM9582FY>
X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group <quic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Apr 2021 13:58:05 -0000

On 4/20/21 6:27 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote:
>
> Having read the thread, I think the chairs handled this appropriately. 
> You made a suggestion, several people, most notably David Schinazi 
> told you why they didn't think that it was an improvement, and you 
> responded by complaining that David didn't want to run an experiment 
> that he didn't see value in. Lucas politely asked you to take it 
> elsewhere. With that said, if you in fact think that Lucas behaved 
> inappropriately, I encourage you to take it up with the ADs.
>
I responded that I was incredulous that signing a DNS zone was 
tantamount to "boiling the ocean". In what world is that true? And that 
was apparently enough to cause the chairs to go ballistic. It was not 
polite whatsoever. It was a first class snarl.

Mike

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email