IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonaventure-quic-atsss-overview-00.txt

Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be> Wed, 03 June 2020 07:26 UTC

Return-Path: <olivier.bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2EE53A0CB2 for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 3 Jun 2020 00:26:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=uclouvain.be
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N42_iPzyGBzz for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 3 Jun 2020 00:26:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR01-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr130114.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.13.114]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D14623A0CB1 for <quic@ietf.org>; Wed, 3 Jun 2020 00:26:07 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=eihtBqVgwKKe5ymgz4WLTapn4l2PhXYYjLz///YIvbiPmLXJhkkC/hJy6zQ4Za74SX5zRxmeKwHz5vXEtT/4Il7nv2E55HlBxvhJkNqPcwWuhWiaXx608HZoU/8QwrFYsuic7YoLJjAIyKS48NVLgZk0LRB6UuPETSjCuDaiKT/suiiieqXboegX/WGTJafXfrVg36A/6tJGqeAg1igufgGu/O1h4FyUbHXYh6YRSsfT6XEqCZ077aaJ3C2gVb8cZEEyYgd6IMCqUoqCaHgJoJWiGHC4VS6BNb6D6HlwG5j52VvVaObXd4FoFBqGrI1knFTFusBcai27sF/AmsnMDA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=fe27PsVoH7L8NauT/61mLqW9Dyrt/jM1uicD5ZooIAs=; b=bE3v2YoBwdI+LQyGr2LYS40jaRDHu588+hxy40hmltwzJ0h7CoCFQrHAp9SCRJMAnivP1rLo4RRrzATBJVPH65lhLOnct7WH7u2xu0uYFwyIP9dIN+Pk26xMPV9ajenM8fBI50XD5ZyaXMmQa2SVFJfjfHtuR1vXHGxAqgqyx2LThRVpSQiLwIIg77GcKo4vnDWM7WuXAWqKnnlMmcdfO8UQRRR/nfBmNq7SJ4TNq8T+yJixhQu5zWf25XvaRZwpjKCW8N3c0stLgtgc16rG3sVGpjsrKlIqJoSyGp9PcHRdqQFIF4k/9lZEso8DqKzPlTsQqUtwyPQx6PwPU9j73Q==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=uclouvain.be; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=uclouvain.be; dkim=pass header.d=uclouvain.be; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=uclouvain.be; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=fe27PsVoH7L8NauT/61mLqW9Dyrt/jM1uicD5ZooIAs=; b=PBp+VzHCuRf3sjH8b4rQhwnUDsHNMITxF1Wt+jRO5csQAhtSnn8Y73m4cvWqtHuT0XS/GzfgaJxW/hnqNq07BbR/gqQTNdkqFdg7Q33SM/FXQE2ZZHda/MPybRlov4NiPediVQPDn5nDPGMdbTHIx4BqS5XpakrPz6DSYqODpIE=
Authentication-Results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=uclouvain.be;
Received: from AM7PR03MB6642.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:1bf::6) by AM7PR03MB6215.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:13d::21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3066.18; Wed, 3 Jun 2020 07:26:03 +0000
Received: from AM7PR03MB6642.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::fcc2:e19d:eec3:15e6]) by AM7PR03MB6642.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::fcc2:e19d:eec3:15e6%7]) with mapi id 15.20.3066.018; Wed, 3 Jun 2020 07:26:03 +0000
Reply-To: Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be
Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-bonaventure-quic-atsss-overview-00.txt
To: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>, Matt Joras <matt.joras@gmail.com>, Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: IETF QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>
References: <159084638843.27466.7915766554130545967@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAKKJt-eHQtgjc-zuO7vrGZ1Q2c7=3hetOb0FyqnEmbTDu1Uwuw@mail.gmail.com> <CADdTf+iBRLu20OH-WTEmo=e7WZ8Ce5QVP+_LWO09u6LxjCPe2g@mail.gmail.com> <0ecd2f86-3472-5242-eb41-6eaefb640027@uclouvain.be> <fe1eb46c-a46c-9c63-adc9-b0ec529e0445@huitema.net>
From: Olivier Bonaventure <Olivier.Bonaventure@uclouvain.be>
Message-ID: <1fa3eabf-451c-722c-1c56-b5f93a72e4d4@uclouvain.be>
Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2020 09:26:02 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.1
In-Reply-To: <fe1eb46c-a46c-9c63-adc9-b0ec529e0445@huitema.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: fr-classic
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-ClientProxiedBy: AM0PR10CA0021.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:17c::31) To AM7PR03MB6642.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:1bf::6)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1
Received: from mbpobo-2.local (2a02:2788:484:b4f:dd71:cdaf:a4fb:47ac) by AM0PR10CA0021.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:17c::31) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3066.18 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 3 Jun 2020 07:26:03 +0000
X-Originating-IP: [2a02:2788:484:b4f:dd71:cdaf:a4fb:47ac]
X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email
X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 4292cc02-2cfd-42e5-efdd-08d8078f5f2a
X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM7PR03MB6215:
X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: <AM7PR03MB62158ED64558FD94649B72F586880@AM7PR03MB6215.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:9508;
X-Forefront-PRVS: 04238CD941
X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1
X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;
X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: RY0pm+IS1nlX/KTL8D9Xnf6i5F2IF8QW8qvpZ9nOcCJgaO6f0bLsMbJuViVx3wd42fXDPAOyOMIKAPE/lJKHOGfsmJsndEHswtWbXIHfquqcUwOEPh62dlXCaGVRFqJewGGBvn86zaKAt96PPWfybZmq9GiK3hBQmClRJqz7DR4UxwGGwompg0CuZdUUIgcJpOwYp71cs98uieB6qntHc2dPUS9+3xXvzueeH6EKwI2weqfmcBiRgoLhGMsCmVvP0xNIAroGnfUothl3Mls5MoeguC9cP+RNlN2qbJuMCpWu7s2wotz7+G5YdI/6s42vUpOLtE3uteFwF+50c6VE67ZjNFUGKcKWEU/jEwBW/lHCAtdzsgSzoWEYhmEUtdaA
X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:AM7PR03MB6642.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(4636009)(346002)(39860400002)(366004)(376002)(136003)(396003)(478600001)(31696002)(316002)(110136005)(66476007)(786003)(66556008)(66946007)(6506007)(5660300002)(86362001)(52116002)(2616005)(6512007)(8936002)(16526019)(4326008)(36756003)(8676002)(186003)(2906002)(6486002)(3450700001)(31686004)(43740500002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: 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
X-OriginatorOrg: uclouvain.be
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4292cc02-2cfd-42e5-efdd-08d8078f5f2a
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 03 Jun 2020 07:26:03.5225 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 7ab090d4-fa2e-4ecf-bc7c-4127b4d582ec
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: 7DIo0nznCP2+v/wgbajuLgBp3IgJnGjI9zS784RqEkUwY7XDu/YoAw7ewCFUy7hEwsJ1wSnwteAOM+Re3Rs73CBp6Z0mySIq8XAAol1HCtdd0nUHPZgOh5aZPnmzEH1O
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM7PR03MB6215
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/rw5sLVU2uzjl8MyfuAbFA6JiRcg>
X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group <quic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2020 07:26:10 -0000

Christian,

>> Solving these problems in the network allows to support existing and
>> unmodifed applications, which is a key requirement from a deployment
>> viewpoint. A longer term approach could be to expose more information
>> from the underlying network to the upper layer so that new
>> applications can make informed and possibly better choices.
> 
> I really wonder whether that argument applies to QUIC in 2020. Existing
> and unmodified applications use TCP today, not QUIC.

One of the use cases for ATSSSv2 is to simply carry Ethernet frames over 
the cellular and non-cellular networks.

> QUIC capable applications have path migration capabilities built-in from
> the start, which covers most of the "reliability" use cases of
> multipath, without insert yet another middle-box in the setup.

Path migration is a nice feature of QUICv1. I'd be interested in seeing 
measurements that compare QUICv1 path migration during handovers with 
MPTCP's approach to handover allows to use both paths during the 
handover. Experience with MPTCP shows that MPTCP's approach works well. 
If some has data on path migration with QUICv1 applications that do 
handovers, I'd be interested in looking at them.


Olivier

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email