Re: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 conclusions"
Jana Iyengar <jri.ietf@gmail.com> Thu, 03 December 2020 04:54 UTC
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From: Jana Iyengar <jri.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 2020 20:54:37 -0800
Message-ID: <CACpbDceeYDNV7mDcj1x4w21UE3nJggoxp0vNTd8M-yn3ShhYDg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 conclusions"
To: lionel.morand@orange.com
Cc: "Markus.Amend@telekom.de" <Markus.Amend@telekom.de>, "kazuhooku@gmail.com" <kazuhooku@gmail.com>, "magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com" <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>, "statements@ietf.org" <statements@ietf.org>, Apostolis Salkintzis <salki@motorola.com>, "gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com" <gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com>, "3GPPLiaison@etsi.org" <3GPPLiaison@etsi.org>, "chair@ietf.org" <chair@ietf.org>, "lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com" <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com>, "martenseemann@gmail.com" <martenseemann@gmail.com>, "lars@eggert.org" <lars@eggert.org>, "quic@ietf.org" <quic@ietf.org>, "martin.h.duke@gmail.com" <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>
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Speaking only as a user of computer technology, thanks for making this more palatable as a PDF. A few questions: - I am a bit confused by the picture, and Spencer or someone else can point me to something that I haven't read yet -- I thought the QUIC connection was between the remote server and the UE, not between the UPF and the UE. Am I missing something? - Assuming that the QUIC connection is between the UE and the remote server: Since only endpoints can see the packet numbers, how are the packets supposed to be re-sequenced at any point in the middle (the UPF)? Thanks! - jana On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 11:14 AM <lionel.morand@orange.com> wrote: > Including Apostolis into the loop. > > > > *De :* Markus.Amend@telekom.de [mailto:Markus.Amend@telekom.de] > *Envoyé :* mardi 1 décembre 2020 12:07 > *À :* kazuhooku@gmail.com; MORAND Lionel TGI/OLN <lionel.morand@orange.com > > > *Cc :* magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; statements@ietf.org; > gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com; 3GPPLiaison@etsi.org; chair@ietf.org; > lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com; martenseemann@gmail.com; lars@eggert.org; > quic@ietf.org; martin.h.duke@gmail.com > *Objet :* RE: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 conclusions" > > > > Thanks for raising this topic. With > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-amend-iccrg-multipath-reordering-01 we > consider exactly that and try to provide input to develop/discuss different > re-ordering strategies. My personal belief is, that without any re-ordering > implementation in the UPF or UE the end-to-end delivery will be worse. > > > > *From:* QUIC <quic-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Kazuho Oku > *Sent:* Dienstag, 1. Dezember 2020 11:29 > *To:* lionel.morand@orange.com > *Cc:* Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>; Liaison > Statement Management Tool <statements@ietf.org>; > gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com; 3GPPLiaison@etsi.org; chair@ietf.org; > Lucas Pardue <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com>; Marten Seemann < > martenseemann@gmail.com>; Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>; QUIC Discussion > List <quic@ietf.org>; Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> > *Subject:* Re: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 conclusions" > > > > Lionel, thank you for converting the statement to PDF. > > > > Reading the document, I have one question. > > > > "The simultaneous transmission of a data flow across two accesses should > not result in out-of-order delivery" > > I wonder what this sentence means. Is it suggesting that UPF (and possibly > UE) would buffer packets that arrive on the faster path until the packets > that were sent on the slower path reach that node? To give an example, > let's say that UE has sent three packets: packet 1 sent using WiFi, packet > 2 using LTE, packet 3 using WiFi. UPF receives packets in the order of 1, > 3, 2. Is UPF expected to postpone the forwarding of packet 3 until it > receives packet 2? > > I raise the question, because during the interim, some have pointed out > that such buffering has negative effects on loss recovery, and that we > should devote our efforts to designing an end-to-end multi-path design, > rather than having an intermediary that aggregates paths (in this case UPF). > > > > > > 2020年12月1日(火) 18:43 <lionel.morand@orange.com>: > > Hi, > > > > Here is a pdf version. > > > > Regards, > > > > Lionel > > > > *De :* Marten Seemann [mailto:martenseemann@gmail.com] > *Envoyé :* mardi 1 décembre 2020 05:17 > *À :* Liaison Statement Management Tool <statements@ietf.org> > *Cc :* Lucas Pardue <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com>; Lars Eggert < > lars@eggert.org>; Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>; > MORAND Lionel TGI/OLN <lionel.morand@orange.com>; > gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com; 3GPPLiaison@etsi.org; chair@ietf.org; > QUIC Discussion List <quic@ietf.org>; Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com > > > *Objet :* Re: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 conclusions" > > > > Would it be possible to publish this document in a format that can be > opened by everyone without using proprietary software? > > > > Thank you, > > Marten > > > > On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 10:40 PM Liaison Statement Management Tool < > statements@ietf.org> wrote: > > Title: LS on ATSSS Phase 2 conclusions > Submission Date: 2020-11-30 > URL of the IETF Web page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1710/ > > From: Susanna Kooistra <3GPPLiaison@etsi.org> > To: Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>,Lucas Pardue <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com > > > Cc: QUIC Discussion List <quic@ietf.org>,Martin Duke < > martin.h.duke@gmail.com>,Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>,Lucas > Pardue <lucaspardue.24.7@gmail.com>,Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>, > gonzalo.camarillo@ericsson.com,chair@ietf.org > Response Contacts: lionel.morand@orange.com,3GPPLiaison@etsi.org > Technical Contacts: > Purpose: For information > > Body: > Attachments: > > S2-2009400_8852r02 > > https://www.ietf.org/lib/dt/documents/LIAISON/liaison-2020-11-30-3gpp-tsgsa-sa2-quic-ls-on-atsss-phase-2-conclusions-attachment-1.doc > > > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Kazuho Oku > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > >
- New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 concl… Liaison Statement Management Tool
- Re: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Marten Seemann
- RE: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Gonzalo Camarillo
- Re: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Christian Huitema
- RE: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… lionel.morand
- Re: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Kazuho Oku
- RE: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Markus.Amend
- RE: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Gonzalo Camarillo
- Re: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Kevin
- RE: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… lionel.morand
- RE: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Apostolis Salkintzis
- Re: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Jana Iyengar
- RE: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Waqar Zia
- RE: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Markus.Amend
- RE: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- RE: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Markus.Amend
- RE: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Mikkel Fahnøe Jørgensen
- RE: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Markus.Amend
- Re: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Roberto Peon
- Re: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Jana Iyengar
- RE: [External] Re: New Liaison Statement, "LS on … Apostolis Salkintzis
- Re: [External] Re: New Liaison Statement, "LS on … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: New Liaison Statement, "LS on ATSSS Phase 2 c… Behcet Sarikaya
- Draft response to New Liaison Statement, "LS on A… Lars Eggert
- Re: Draft response to New Liaison Statement, "LS … Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: Draft response to New Liaison Statement, "LS … Ian Swett
- Re: Draft response to New Liaison Statement, "LS … Lucas Pardue
- Re: Draft response to New Liaison Statement, "LS … Behcet Sarikaya
- RE: Draft response to New Liaison Statement, "LS … Waqar Zia
- Re: Draft response to New Liaison Statement, "LS … Lars Eggert
- Re: Draft response to New Liaison Statement, "LS … Jana Iyengar
- RE: Draft response to New Liaison Statement, "LS … Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- Re: Draft response to New Liaison Statement, "LS … Lars Eggert
- Re: Draft response to New Liaison Statement, "LS … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- RE: Draft response to New Liaison Statement, "LS … Flinck, Hannu (Nokia - FI/Espoo)
- Re: Draft response to New Liaison Statement, "LS … Spencer Dawkins at IETF
- Re: Draft response to New Liaison Statement, "LS … Behcet Sarikaya