Re: Call For Adoption QUIC: delayed-ack

Mirja Kuehlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@ericsson.com> Wed, 07 April 2021 13:55 UTC

Return-Path: <mirja.kuehlewind@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: quic@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC48D3A1970 for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 06:55:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.101
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tcnZNobBVEf1 for <quic@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 06:55:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from EUR04-DB3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr60078.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.6.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D9C83A1974 for <quic@ietf.org>; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 06:55:43 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=i1q8QSkMVByEkwZ1dHErGqV/7z9EpE7suau7rBI46vJKpa31WsD8se2zKKk5F8cMZ+9TElDBqmMglhkeVK+iWC3YDEeuaKE5HQvgdRsicxHnDhgCCzo8LHs/D76GKufDhNzovLkBEjTDqeanCNAcGmwykLrB/ZwKa1ltBCE7GYW49UIHotZgcQh+2gk6PFerN+ognqQcqc4a43NUP+IImQU4j/CABYySjlwZegd5aTLaFpMyHcCi3GoXWsaW5SRtaWKQJuFptY8896OjPfriVfu7yLP4fG0BuKcP8LDUodk+pB/MoFLcjHscNZrDQt72TGKcyLGnZPCVIaQ6rImgKw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=cvZtOplDRZwg61KaQJQl1t4ZNg81RGuYndli4H22gWQ=; b=ZuSQmpIjz+cqin5PXyWQY5lNVIAI7UDZbq2O1b7CAn7HixbBwBLtUmbpf3KozMTnijLpZjY70WZzNtD5adGIKRMWDq6fNLNjhkXbTvUQ4L3jPAEb2l1ktkvgTAmP5whWxNYQoiIfT4PaYY6kjk8zttLXycHC+14XatqZL16118pI3fBx0Xv4NTaTOLJRevi4tbQVq0Ri0Ue7AAqovQI1SIaaors505IGiDg+mtOFmALw/jrd9wMCEpW35da3yRiFhoqB8AucZJEuoipH4pufZ1EAhd53qxD9F9xrZBLuS31bFCaZCpOUjFe14g7IILHI6U3HfWjs3tbPrDvE9bKnHg==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ericsson.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ericsson.com; dkim=pass header.d=ericsson.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=cvZtOplDRZwg61KaQJQl1t4ZNg81RGuYndli4H22gWQ=; b=R4QQVe0KM9rt+EeH4TII4IJhXl1Fz+zNjQhM2lKJ66Mc1gY1+zg+TyTOowwvm2y6pztQfWmtEapBFTaqfMGLUxqH9Mm97tK4ttihIyDq9ptUYxg+5gM+N6Y5Nbx+Y5FSaduNpc3+Prjj68I3WfmnGvXpNKFCMjvI5AvnOCAL8BY=
Received: from AM0PR07MB3939.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:208:40::14) by AM9PR07MB7859.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:20b:302::14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4020.8; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 13:55:41 +0000
Received: from AM0PR07MB3939.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f5b3:5946:19c5:d8b8]) by AM0PR07MB3939.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f5b3:5946:19c5:d8b8%6]) with mapi id 15.20.4020.018; Wed, 7 Apr 2021 13:55:41 +0000
From: Mirja Kuehlewind <mirja.kuehlewind@ericsson.com>
To: Matt Joras <matt.joras@gmail.com>, IETF QUIC WG <quic@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Call For Adoption QUIC: delayed-ack
Thread-Topic: Call For Adoption QUIC: delayed-ack
Thread-Index: AQHXJZxnwXTN0dBZj0yiBkIJGd6BfqqpQbEA
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 13:55:40 +0000
Message-ID: <CBBCC238-8456-403B-9670-3C75CE184392@ericsson.com>
References: <CADdTf+gUYjUL=Z0zbhS-Hn7TURxXJtzcL8Nou0v0rvzwOSf5Wg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CADdTf+gUYjUL=Z0zbhS-Hn7TURxXJtzcL8Nou0v0rvzwOSf5Wg@mail.gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-GB
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.45.21011103
authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=ericsson.com;
x-originating-ip: [2003:de:e740:2700:4df7:b0d:5924:864b]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 81df95ce-8f29-42be-879f-08d8f9ccd4bf
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM9PR07MB7859:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <AM9PR07MB785940559E5516C4DC83E489F4759@AM9PR07MB7859.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:AM0PR07MB3939.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(39860400002)(346002)(136003)(396003)(376002)(366004)(66446008)(64756008)(66556008)(66946007)(66476007)(76116006)(44832011)(6486002)(5660300002)(8676002)(2616005)(6512007)(186003)(36756003)(71200400001)(6506007)(2906002)(33656002)(110136005)(8936002)(316002)(966005)(86362001)(38100700001)(83380400001)(478600001)(45980500001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <AC12FA6E33A4C542AD010087C83769D6@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: AM0PR07MB3939.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 81df95ce-8f29-42be-879f-08d8f9ccd4bf
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Apr 2021 13:55:40.9692 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: gVvMIbIGm/OpkUwhCyAk4I9W60c9a4NZyX6Kuv7aLvkAKQH3YDCUyERGv+D5NKprEgeFhWdey1PBuCwvkqxTsJTodxQkG8GJpfuHVv9/33k=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM9PR07MB7859
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/quic/zeL6tgK3uNUQZrgmVcV25YYyuqw>
X-BeenThere: quic@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Main mailing list of the IETF QUIC working group <quic.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/quic/>
List-Post: <mailto:quic@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/quic>, <mailto:quic-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Apr 2021 13:55:48 -0000

Hi,

I know I'm too late but I also support adoption.

But now that I found the time to read the draft again, I also have two comment:

1) It seems like min_ack_delay is "only" used for negotiation because the draft does not specify any further what to do with this value. Isn't either min_ack_delay or Packet Tolerance sufficient, e.g. what if you have a packet tolerance of 1 but a min_ack_delay of > 0?

2) For ECN, you don't need to send an immediate ACK for each CE. Immediate ACKs are most important when the codepoint switches to CE, but then, if multiple CEs in a row are received, you can bundle the ACK information. See also https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tcpm-accurate-ecn-14#section-3.2.2.5.1 
(Note that we are still working on that section for AccECN but I think any changes are only relevant for specifics of TCP)

Mirja



´╗┐On 30.03.21, 21:39, "QUIC on behalf of Matt Joras" <quic-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of matt.joras@gmail.com> wrote:

    Hello all,

    Now that we have been rechartered we can move forward with adopting
    new items. It is the opinion of the chairs that the delayed-ack
    draft[1] has sufficient interest from and relevance to the WG to be
    formally adopted. This email is the call to do so. There are already
    several interoperating implementations of the current draft. Please
    reply to this email with any comments, the call will run through April
    6th.

    Thanks,
    QUIC Chairs

    [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iyengar-quic-delayed-ack/