Re: [radext] "Insecure Practices" : accounting?

Alan DeKok <aland@deployingradius.com> Sun, 12 November 2023 14:27 UTC

Return-Path: <aland@deployingradius.com>
X-Original-To: radext@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: radext@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB8BEC17C524 for <radext@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 12 Nov 2023 06:27:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.909
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.909 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZSpdXGzwwh1J for <radext@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sun, 12 Nov 2023 06:27:07 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.networkradius.com (mail.networkradius.com [62.210.147.122]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70E83C17C522 for <radext@ietf.org>; Sun, 12 Nov 2023 06:27:06 -0800 (PST)
Received: from smtpclient.apple (135-23-95-173.cpe.pppoe.ca [135.23.95.173]) by mail.networkradius.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 61564308; Sun, 12 Nov 2023 14:27:04 +0000 (UTC)
Authentication-Results: NetworkRADIUS; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=deployingradius.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.1\))
From: Alan DeKok <aland@deployingradius.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAOW+2dvH_yLDFPA7WfgokhOM0GvzSGRxLbSbuyam-JssSwVEpw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2023 09:27:03 -0500
Cc: radext@ietf.org
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <00082304-07EC-43D5-A0A2-165CF2846BED@deployingradius.com>
References: <CAOW+2dvH_yLDFPA7WfgokhOM0GvzSGRxLbSbuyam-JssSwVEpw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.1)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/radext/IRG6WZCwYgER-3Y5WI9ofdtoOXQ>
Subject: Re: [radext] "Insecure Practices" : accounting?
X-BeenThere: radext@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: RADIUS EXTensions working group discussion list <radext.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/radext>, <mailto:radext-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/radext/>
List-Post: <mailto:radext@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:radext-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/radext>, <mailto:radext-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2023 14:27:08 -0000

On Nov 10, 2023, at 8:21 AM, Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> The "Insecure Practices" draft is good Halloween reading.  Quite horrifying. Boo!

  It's RADIUS :(

> But... there may be more!  The document doesn't talk much about insecure accounting. 
> 
> RFC 2975 describes why RADIUS over UDP shouldn't be used in situations where packet loss (or packet modification) translates to financial losses: 
> RFC 2975 - Introduction to Accounting Management (ietf.org)
> 
> This potentially extends the vulnerabilities described in "Insecure Practices" to financial irregularities. 
> 
> One way to fix this is to use a reliable transport and cryptographic integrity protection (e.g. RADIUS Accounting over TLS) to prevent loss or modification of accounting data. 

  I'll add some text to the next draft.

  Alan DeKok.