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Re: [radext] Question about CoA-Request and Tunnel-Password

"David B. Nelson" <d.b.nelson@comcast.net> Wed, 10 May 2017 01:47 UTC

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References: <BBF30238-4DBC-4793-898B-7DE1BE13ED6C@deployingradius.com> <9F6FAC17-FEBE-4864-8D50-BE62C40C1D61@gmail.com> <23BFFA8D-0B95-4EE7-B977-75BD902BBBEB@deployingradius.com>
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Cc: Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com>, "radext@ietf.org" <radext@ietf.org>
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From: "David B. Nelson" <d.b.nelson@comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2017 21:47:38 -0400
To: Alan DeKok <aland@deployingradius.com>
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Subject: Re: [radext] Question about CoA-Request and Tunnel-Password
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Out of curiosity, do you have any notion of the relative prevalence of RADIUS over TLS in deployments today? 

Sent from my iPhone - Not proofread.

> On May 9, 2017, at 9:36 PM, Alan DeKok <aland@deployingradius.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On May 9, 2017, at 8:30 PM, Bernard Aboba <bernard.aboba@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Yeah, this is an instance where RADIUS's lame security is even "lamerer". Does anyone still use Tunnel-Password?
> 
>  Not a lot.  And I've never seen it used in CoA-Request packets, which makes this issue less of a problem.
> 
>  Any attack based on the limited randomness available is mitigated by the fact that even if you had a 100% attack against Tunnel-Password, you still couldn't forge request packets.
> 
>  So the main vulnerability appears to be that it's easier to brute-force crack Tunnel-Password, as there are only 15 bits of randomness available.  Which means pre-computation of hashes becomes that much easier...
> 
>> Makes me wonder if enough evidence has accrued to justify declaring RADIUS security deprecated and recommend a replacement.  
> 
>  I'd suggest requiring DTLS, except the most widely used TLS implementation has had security issue after issue with their DTLS replacement.
> 
>  Deprecating UDP-only RADIUS would be a procedural step.  It wouldn't really affect existing (or most future) deployments.
> 
>  My $0.02 is to just move to RADIUS over TLS, and call it done...
> 
>  What other deprecation / replacement would you suggest?
> 
>  Alan DeKok.
> 
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