[Rai-discuss] TSV BOF request under consideration: SAFE

Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> Mon, 08 October 2007 15:31 UTC

X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.3-dwing_2006_d (2007-08-08) on dwing-wxp01.cisco.com
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Bayes-Spam: 0.949-+--H*RU:sk:sj-inbo, 0.949-+--H*RT:sk:sj-inbo, 0.944-+--H*RT:128.107.243.13, 0.939-+--HAuthentication-Results:neutral, 0.933-+--HX-Spam-Relays-Internal:128.107.243.13
X-Spam-Status: No, Score=-102.3/5.0, AWL=0.022,BAYES_00=-2.312, LOCAL_ALWAYSTRUE=0.01,USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100, autolearn=no
X-Spam-RBL:
X-Spam-UnTrusted: [ ip=156.154.16.145 rdns=stiedprmman1.ietf.org helo=megatron.ietf.org by=sj-inbound-d.cisco.com ident= envfrom= intl=0 id= auth= msa=0 ] [ ip=127.0.0.1 rdns= helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com by=megatron.ietf.org ident= envfrom= intl=0 id=1IeuZ4-00067n-6P auth= msa=0 ] [ ip=10.91.34.44 rdns= helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org by=megatron.ietf.org ident= envfrom= intl=0 id=1IeuZ3-00063O-BT auth= msa=0 ] [ ip=193.180.251.62 rdns=mailgw4.ericsson.se helo=mailgw4.ericsson.se by=ietf-mx.ietf.org ident= envfrom= intl=0 id=1IeuYt-0002RU-Cv auth= msa=0 ] [ ip=127.0.0.1 rdns= helo=mailgw4.ericsson.se by=mailgw4.ericsson.se ident= envfrom= intl=0 id=C809F21528 auth= msa=0 ] [ ip=153.88.254.124 rdns= helo=esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se by=mailgw4.ericsson.se ident= envfrom= intl=0 id=A31D321527 auth= msa=0 ] [ ip=153.88.254.171 rdns= helo=esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se by=esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se ident= envfrom= intl=0 id= auth= msa=0 ] [ ip=147.214.30.247 rdns= helo=!147.214.30.247! by=esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se ident= envfrom= intl=0 id= auth= msa=0 ]
X-Spam-Bayes-Summ: summary=Tokens: new, 82; hammy, 144; neutral, 196; spammy, 7.
Received: from xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.144]) by xmb-sjc-22a.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 8 Oct 2007 08:31:06 -0700
Received: from sj-iport-2.cisco.com ([171.71.176.71]) by xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 8 Oct 2007 08:31:05 -0700
Received: from sj-dkim-1.cisco.com ([171.71.179.21]) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 Oct 2007 08:31:04 -0700
Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com (sj-core-3.cisco.com [171.68.223.137]) by sj-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l98FV4cj013831; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 08:31:04 -0700
Received: from sj-inbound-d.cisco.com (sj-inbound-d.cisco.com [128.107.243.13]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l98FV3q9016399; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 15:31:04 GMT
X-from-outside-Cisco: 156.154.16.145
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAE7qCUecmhCRmGdsb2JhbACOQwIBAQcEBhEW
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.21,243,1188802800"; d="scan'208";a="34632143"
Received: from stiedprmman1.ietf.org (HELO megatron.ietf.org) ([156.154.16.145]) by sj-inbound-d.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 Oct 2007 08:31:00 -0700
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IeuZ4-00067n-6P; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 11:30:38 -0400
Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IeuZ3-00063O-BT for rai-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 11:30:37 -0400
Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se ([193.180.251.62]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IeuYt-0002RU-Cv for rai-discuss@ietf.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2007 11:30:34 -0400
Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id C809F21528; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 17:30:16 +0200 (CEST)
X-AuditID: c1b4fb3e-b1837bb0000007e1-d9-470a4d08f5b5
Received: from esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.254.124]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id A31D321527; Mon, 8 Oct 2007 17:30:16 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.171]) by esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 8 Oct 2007 17:30:16 +0200
Received: from [147.214.30.247] ([147.214.30.247]) by esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 8 Oct 2007 17:30:16 +0200
Message-ID: <470A4D07.7080806@ericsson.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:30:15 +0200
From: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rai-discuss@ietf.org
X-Enigmail-Version: 0.95.3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2007 15:30:16.0414 (UTC) FILETIME=[2086DFE0:01C809C0]
X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA==
X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30
Cc: Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com>
Subject: [Rai-discuss] TSV BOF request under consideration: SAFE
X-BeenThere: rai-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussion list for Realtime Applications and Infrastructure <rai-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rai-discuss>, <mailto:rai-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/private/rai-discuss>
List-Post: <mailto:rai-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rai-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rai-discuss>, <mailto:rai-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: rai-discuss-bounces@ietf.org
Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-1; header.From=magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; dkim=neutral
Return-Path: rai-discuss-bounces@ietf.org

Hi RAI people, I think this is in your interest also.

We TSV ADs have received a request for a BOF in Vancouver: SAFE -
Self-Address Fixing Evolution. See description below. I would appreciate
any feedback on this. For public discussion please use the SAFE mailing
list.

Post: safe@ietf.org
Subscribe: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/safe

Draft:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wing-behave-nat-control-stun-usage-03.txt


SAFE - Self-Address Fixing Evolution
------------------------------------

Chairs:
  TBD


ICE and its companion protocol STUN have been successfully deployed on
the Internet for NAT traversal.  ICE and STUN have several characteristics
which contribute to their success:

  1. incremental deployment.  ICE and STUN are functional without any
     modifications to existing NATs.
  2. nested NATs.  ICE and STUN work when there are multiple NATs
     between a host and the Internet.
  3. topology unaware.  ICE and STUN are not configured with
     information about NATs, firewalls, or their locations -- only
     with the IP address of a server on the Internet.
  4. simple security model.  If a host behind a NAT is allowed to send
     a packet across the NAT, it is allowed to receive a response.
  5. works on routed networks, which allows operation in both
     enterprise networks and home networks.

Other NAT traversal protocols do not share these characteristics,
which hinders their widespread deployment.  Specifically,

  * incremental deployment is not possible with MIDCOM, NSIS-NSLP,
    UPnP, or Bonjour.  With all of these protocols, both the NAT
    and the endpoint have to support the same protocol.
  * nested NATs are not possible with UPnP or Bonjour.
  * topology awareness is required of MIDCOM.
  * security must be established between the controlling entity
    and the NAT for MIDCOM and NSIS-NSLP.
  * Both UPnP and Bonjour use broadcast packets which don't work
    well on routed networks.

However, a drawback of ICE/STUN is its chatty keepalive traffic,
which is a result of STUN not knowing the binding lifetime of its
on-path NATs.  This chattiness causes a burden on servers and
consumes network bandwidth, which is especially critical on wireless
networks.  It is desirable to reduce this chattiness while still
retaining the important characteristics of STUN and ICE.

This BoF is intended to discuss one proposed technique,
draft-wing-behave-nat-control-stun-usage, which nearly eliminates
STUN's keepalive chatter and still preserves the desirable
characteristics of STUN/ICE.

The purpose of this BoF is to create a working group for this effort.


Agenda:
  Introduction, Agenda ....................................  5
  Summary of existing NAT traversal techniques ............ 40
   (UPnP, NAT-PMP/Bonjour, MIDCOM techniques, NSIS-NSLP, ICE)
  draft-wing-behave-nat-control-stun-usage ................ 40
  Q&A ..................................................... 25
                                                    ----------
                                                    total: 110

Cheers

Magnus Westerlund

IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM/M
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ericsson AB                | Phone +46 8 4048287
Torshamsgatan 23           | Fax   +46 8 7575550
S-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------




_______________________________________________
Rai-discuss mailing list
Rai-discuss@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rai-discuss