Re: [Rats] About current RATS drafts
Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de> Fri, 01 November 2019 15:38 UTC
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To: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@island-resort.com>
CC: H Y <yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com>, rats@ietf.org
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From: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
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Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2019 16:38:10 +0100
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Subject: Re: [Rats] About current RATS drafts
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Hi Laurence, I'll map that to the terminology that is still consistent between the initial architecture I-D and Dave's condensed architecture I-D. Also a question at the end. > The input to the verifier may be software measurements (TPM or EAT format). That is the Attestation Evidence (that was the only thing I meant when talking about the "two primary focuses". > The output of the verifier might be a Boolean that the measurements were correct. That is (the most simple, but most certainly viable) the Attestation Result. > If the verifier knows that the device will never send an attestation is the boot and debug state are not locked down, then the verifier can add those claims. I do not fully follow you here, I am afraid. Which Claims can be added by the Verifer to what at which time? :) I assume you mean that the Attestation Result can include implicit assertions based on the attestation Provenance - expressed as Claims. I am not really sure, what type of claims you are implying, though. Viele Grüße, Henk On 01.11.19 16:24, Laurence Lundblade wrote: > Hi Henk, > > good point. > > Yes, EAT has been focused on 1) below. However it seems we might expand > EAT to 2) especially considering that 2) is not constrained by the TPM. > I’ve added an issue <https://github.com/ietf-rats-wg/eat/issues/44> to > the EAT GitHub to track this possible work. > > Here’s two examples: > > The input to the verifier may be software measurements (TPM or EAT > format). The output of the verifier might be a Boolean that the > measurements were correct. > > Some implicit claims might be made explicit. For example, if the > verifier knows that the device will never send an attestation is the > boot and debug state are not locked down, then the verifier can > add those claims. > > > LL > > >> On Nov 1, 2019, at 7:57 AM, Henk Birkholz >> <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de >> <mailto:henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>> wrote: >> >> Hi Laurence, >> >> good point. There are basically two primary focuses here, I think: >> >> 1.) Evidence that includes Trustworthy Claims about the Attester, and >> 2.) Evidence that includes Claims about the Trustworthiness of the >> Attester. >> >> In 1.) you can put trust into the Veracity of Evidence due to the >> attestation Provenance, in 2.) you are given the decision basis for >> assessing the Trustworthiness/Integrity of the attestation Provenance. >> >> Laurence, please correct me if I am wrong, but the current EAT draft >> focuses on 1.). Is that correct? >> >> Viele Grüße, >> >> Henk >> >> On 01.11.19 15:25, Laurence Lundblade wrote: >>> Hello, >>> A frame up that works for me is to think about 1) the claims, the >>> attestation format and its details and 2) the transport / conveyance >>> and its details. >>> In the TPM/TCG world the claims and attestation format is locked down >>> by what TPM chips do today. It is a set of registers that hold hash >>> values used to measure software. In the EAT world, which typically >>> implements on fully functional CPUs, the claims and attestation >>> format is not at all locked down and our work is to define it (the >>> eat draft). >>> A lot of the network and router folks have been putting TPMs into >>> their routers and now need a way to get the TPM output off the router >>> to the network management center. This world runs off of Yang >>> protocols. The main interest there is a very specific Yang-based way >>> to move TPM output. This is the yang, tuda and pubsub drafts. >>> The EAT use cases are more about TEE’s and lining up with >>> end-user-application-oriented uses like FIDO and the Android key >>> store. They make use of all the existing transports used by >>> application protocol (mainly HTTP) so there’s no worry about defining >>> transport. >>> I think a few of us see EAT as the more general and flexible >>> attestation format that will eventually replace the TPM format. >>> Because EAT can use CBOR and COSE which are carefully designed for >>> constrained devices there is some hope that it can go into TPM-like HW. >>> The architecture draft is trying to tie the two together in a sort of >>> unified field theory. Seems possible, but hard to me. >>> LL >>>> On Nov 1, 2019, at 5:08 AM, H Y <yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com >>>> <mailto:yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com> <mailto:yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I'm Yuhei Hayashi, network security researcher of NTT in Japan. I >>>> learned about the existence of RATS WG at IETF 105. >>>> >>>> I'm interested in the work of RATS WG and I'm trying to understand it. >>>> So, I'm firstly trying to understand which drafts contain the >>>> standards listed in the charter. >>>> >>>> I will attach the result of organizing it from my own point of view. >>>> I'm glad if you confirm that my understanding is correct, if possible. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Yuhei >>>> -- >>>> ---------------------------------- >>>> Yuuhei HAYASHI >>>> yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com <mailto:yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com> >>>> <mailto:yuuhei.hayashi@gmail.com> >>>> ---------------------------------- >>>> <RATS_drafts.pdf>_______________________________________________ >>>> RATS mailing list >>>> RATS@ietf.org <mailto:RATS@ietf.org> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats >>> _______________________________________________ >>> RATS mailing list >>> RATS@ietf.org <mailto:RATS@ietf.org> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats >> >
- Re: [Rats] About current RATS drafts Henk Birkholz
- [Rats] About current RATS drafts H Y
- Re: [Rats] About current RATS drafts Laurence Lundblade
- Re: [Rats] About current RATS drafts Henk Birkholz
- Re: [Rats] About current RATS drafts Laurence Lundblade
- Re: [Rats] About current RATS drafts Henk Birkholz
- Re: [Rats] About current RATS drafts Laurence Lundblade
- Re: [Rats] About current RATS drafts H Y