Re: [Rats] Call for adoption (after draft rename) for Yang module draft

Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com> Wed, 13 November 2019 00:22 UTC

Return-Path: <dthaler@microsoft.com>
X-Original-To: rats@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rats@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D7D21200B5 for <rats@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 16:22:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.001
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=microsoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BHw7cfH8bNiw for <rats@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 16:22:51 -0800 (PST)
Received: from NAM03-CO1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr790133.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.79.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B024120044 for <rats@ietf.org>; Tue, 12 Nov 2019 16:22:51 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=NKzw8MIdw4w8REV4kL0mzk+CIJnGHymuZkQQD+fg7Zji3K9Fpu3xntatRdvWnnJ93D04bIHfjFVbWx2yDlQugmAA/26lJqt2qhQ2cJh91ApD/R1qWls35BRbTeQv3ZBJseVaJWnmIAT+rAohKdPzpTpwRZ4e/0LsiPriFIn4a1eVTokAodYgn95eu99zEvaU1uBWKaRT7rC7rzKSwYtgzvELWdlt2rqlEdzJ47aLKDDAqLNInB8WFLFupWku9Potp5sksFqHG3DtHYKCWJrOP8y1XapPNqrcG2cX0He+r18nsQPO94Mi1RF4XcFN/FJ2gCEApcrKbAiqGe8zCdV/yw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=eU2BnO9NBgoQ2XrKcTsqEfrKD3aLfPi4tnS0HaYmXbY=; b=GiNAY8omkDg+cp9Ceou3ETRn3kYoepoxrPGX/OkkpKNI3+ik8DRRVKAqflULsPORDZO2azgpRURRu9ySSS/QNSCnUOiEuQEWlEWbRkxXPeX3fTbenYwywNBslesllwWQ+D0tVT7ssrWK4QTyz4Y7l9gz/K37Fsi8JFCQOORW2M1jc6rjDct97yj1Cd+Br04rluE/hiZPma5sw+2VwmOg3FWimN4rHyJPvf97GC8VYbnWJMkm7+TwxK71m8Nl7sifDd3TYSdt1j98rVhk5PjxmvJAs2VyFB/otMJ5dB60Tj3dYxLrP/WoZECQTs4a4O+/zJAFL8B3cls2VGYs/3SAVA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=microsoft.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=microsoft.com; dkim=pass header.d=microsoft.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=eU2BnO9NBgoQ2XrKcTsqEfrKD3aLfPi4tnS0HaYmXbY=; b=LXC3mSjNAzs7OwUp9wQ8Ev9DuhVILzcE8mhWyEzy4IjyVL4A2Brirka4ZsnLY/YMlJmKLq2ZsqimmVaBimVtLCo612DggDaXywyWf89lvk0Ev7Jk1UvtCcPrb23gbqBOYwPGjqfmnk6Og2QUGPuFjaNksKJLBhmpG/zGUWj88YE=
Received: from MWHPR21MB0784.namprd21.prod.outlook.com (10.173.51.150) by MWHPR21MB0832.namprd21.prod.outlook.com (10.173.51.10) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2451.15; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 00:22:50 +0000
Received: from MWHPR21MB0784.namprd21.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::8d41:8f86:8654:8439]) by MWHPR21MB0784.namprd21.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::8d41:8f86:8654:8439%12]) with mapi id 15.20.2474.001; Wed, 13 Nov 2019 00:22:50 +0000
From: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, Laurence Lundblade <lgl@island-resort.com>
CC: "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Rats] Call for adoption (after draft rename) for Yang module draft
Thread-Index: AQHVlCwI8/lytau3hU+AhCwtIdg/0ad+jL2AgAAHhQCAAAO1AIAF46wAgACM2YCAAG6hAIAA8mAAgAABTYCAANGYgIABC5pg
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 00:22:49 +0000
Message-ID: <MWHPR21MB07843E60B5E8EE2ABF64D4F0A3760@MWHPR21MB0784.namprd21.prod.outlook.com>
References: <8B173958-FC2A-4D1D-A81C-F324AB632CD7@cisco.com> <147F9159-6055-4E55-ABDC-43DFE3498BF1@island-resort.com> <ce5f8206-74dc-36bb-0093-a93045d5c67f@sit.fraunhofer.de> <0A7E3A4F-8534-4E98-BCB7-1454E07699F4@island-resort.com> <C3AE2645-49C8-4313-BCED-02FEB576B614@cisco.com> <1C8A1884-A37D-45E3-8C11-2FC5A083B245@island-resort.com> <ba12a686-1b34-21a3-388c-bbe01c01a408@sandelman.ca> <4A83CDF5-D29F-4279-8B03-E9D23299EB53@island-resort.com> <0C6940B0-E93F-4274-9D00-DEC4119B8F69@island-resort.com> <85c7c287-48e3-83e7-900e-8e50ce43eba3@sandelman.ca>
In-Reply-To: <85c7c287-48e3-83e7-900e-8e50ce43eba3@sandelman.ca>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
msip_labels: MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Enabled=True; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SiteId=72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Owner=dthaler@ntdev.microsoft.com; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_SetDate=2019-11-13T00:22:50.3589235Z; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Name=General; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Application=Microsoft Azure Information Protection; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_ActionId=a33bd99a-e877-4385-9623-8c0e10fd3e97; MSIP_Label_f42aa342-8706-4288-bd11-ebb85995028c_Extended_MSFT_Method=Automatic
authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=dthaler@microsoft.com;
x-originating-ip: [2001:4898:80e8:0:f8a5:16bc:386f:88f5]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 27a63c0f-5486-48a4-b902-08d767cf9de7
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR21MB0832:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <MWHPR21MB08328C9B53A26486746AB38AA3760@MWHPR21MB0832.namprd21.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6790;
x-forefront-prvs: 0220D4B98D
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(136003)(346002)(39860400002)(396003)(376002)(366004)(199004)(189003)(13464003)(6246003)(186003)(446003)(46003)(10090500001)(22452003)(316002)(4326008)(8990500004)(4001150100001)(55016002)(110136005)(66446008)(66476007)(66556008)(64756008)(66946007)(305945005)(74316002)(52536014)(76116006)(7736002)(11346002)(476003)(486006)(6116002)(9686003)(71190400001)(71200400001)(102836004)(10290500003)(25786009)(33656002)(76176011)(86362001)(8676002)(478600001)(14454004)(256004)(53546011)(7696005)(6436002)(6506007)(2906002)(81156014)(8936002)(81166006)(5660300002)(99286004)(229853002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:MWHPR21MB0832; H:MWHPR21MB0784.namprd21.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1;
received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: microsoft.com does not designate permitted sender hosts)
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: XNZINpDQkVvGyF1Ud6dtQewoi+VHhlkecTGfAOIKgA2SHKm+/yjOyorDE2MM7QpWiSpLbfuk+DkLkOUc1jnPzCiBM1KgLcGPkCXTipJq4HJXcoNjjavhSkF3UwhOs2L9UaXjWme5n3wrpqHlBRJt4y8Z5xwollMpl//82apetI7sY8eG6IX5Llqh6Q1P9fNkdsr/fBN/4LKw5nPWlBw7XaVWlMNMS7eG34rSovpnl8WZQ0SJxwgVaTomXVxcJDIhi7r7TYutREXrsJzrF+G8GbUjl7zU51uA8+L0r+udMAAEEsIU+GQjTwewIciJ131Cha2glDS4epRwQ/iST3x6L3rSaYKAjAsWDh4ZwWLEVWLIqAuuFMV0PlpH1DyObFwvN2hrmXkb8qFD46wuJfdqC6dbVJrORuEd6XkhPbvUnerxrZQLzt4lck6CFbUNNQZZ
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 27a63c0f-5486-48a4-b902-08d767cf9de7
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Nov 2019 00:22:50.0055 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 9DU4SmCBEmk0fTvKzcrfDVCSBIDWdIJucem6eNI8P1pCxnx2JTg5puKPgE4Vg4iT3s+L5JdBMUDVG0HfXUvucNzW6XQK3u9hZ7zq5wOzjmU=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR21MB0832
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/UOIpVxNk_gXR5CVUgKXls92v8pk>
Subject: Re: [Rats] Call for adoption (after draft rename) for Yang module draft
X-BeenThere: rats@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Remote Attestation Procedures <rats.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rats>, <mailto:rats-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rats/>
List-Post: <mailto:rats@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rats-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats>, <mailto:rats-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 00:22:54 -0000

Thanks Michael, I realize I may have had some confusion on YANG terminology (in my first response to Ned) as well in retrospect. 
Your explanation is great for understanding.

Thanks,
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: RATS <rats-bounces@ietf.org>; On Behalf Of Michael Richardson
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 12:23 AM
To: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@island-resort.com>;
Cc: rats@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Rats] Call for adoption (after draft rename) for Yang module draft

On 2019-11-12 3:52 a.m., Laurence Lundblade wrote:
> One more note on this. It seems wrong-headed to try express claims in 
> YANG. To do that we’d need to invent a YANG signing standard (YOSE?).
> Seems like YANG should be thought of as RPC / conveyance / transport 
> here, not as a way to format a signed attestation token.

YANG is an information model (think ASN.1). It is for humans and for code generators, protocol inspectors, etc, it is never bits on the wire.
It needs to be expressed somehow (XML, JSON, CBOR), which is akin to BER/DER.
XML, JSON and CBOR all have signature standards (maybe more than one).
A specific claim could well have a complex set of information that it conveys and that could be expressed in YANG, but I find it difficult to imagine such a thing.