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Re: [Rats] New RATS Architecture document

Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com> Mon, 07 October 2019 23:52 UTC

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From: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>
To: "Schönwälder, Jürgen" <J.Schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>, Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
CC: "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>, Giridhar Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>
Thread-Topic: [Rats] New RATS Architecture document
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Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2019 23:52:00 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Rats] New RATS Architecture document
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It's not a rule.   

There's Experimental protocol RFCs that use normative requirements.
There's Informational protocol RFCs (especially in the Independent stream), typically documenting pre-existing (non-IETF) protocols, that use normative requirements.
There's BCP RFCs that use normative requirements.

There's no requirement that they only be used in standards track docs.

That said, if a doc is meant to be informational (not document a protocol like in the non-IETF protocol case above),
then it's good to not use normative language.  They're best used when the language can actually be tested.

Sometimes they're used to refer to writers of other documents (e.g., any document proposing an extension
MUST include security considerations.) and if used in that sense they might appear in an arch doc.
But generally I wouldn't use them in an arch doc case where you're referring to what an implementer does.

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: RATS <rats-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Schönwälder, Jürgen
Sent: Monday, October 7, 2019 4:11 PM
To: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
Cc: rats@ietf.org; Giridhar Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Rats] New RATS Architecture document

On Tue, Oct 08, 2019 at 12:41:40AM +0200, Henk Birkholz wrote:
> 
> A document that uses normative requirements terminology is standards track.
>

I just searched backwards for the most recent informational document and I found RFC (8649) and it violates this rule. RFC 7921 is informational and has "Architecture" in its title and uses RFC 2119 language as well. So if this rule exists, the IETF is doing pretty bad following it. So where is the the rule defined?

The question whether a document is standards-track should follow from its content (is there material that is normative for creating interoperable implementations?) and not from specific keywords used to write this content down (or other formal aspects).

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
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