Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence
Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> Fri, 24 January 2020 18:19 UTC
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From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
To: "Smith, Ned" <ned.smith@intel.com>
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2020 13:19:36 -0500
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Subject: Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence
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Smith, Ned <ned.smith@intel.com> wrote: mcr> [%] I think you are saying that rather than documenting that we mcr> forward a union of evidence and attestation results, that we mcr> document that will create a kind of evidence, which includes attestation results? Ned> Maybe. It really is a case of multiplexing several conversations Ned> over the same conveyance mechanism, but otherwise conversations Ned> could be de-multiplexed (without creating unnecessary Ned> cross-dependencies). For example in both Passport and BK-Check Ned> topology models, a message is simply relayed. The endpoints are Ned> still the way they're defined in the Roles Arch diagram. yes, I agree, we could send a list of evidence and a list of attestion results from components. I don't really know what the list of potential *verification* protocols is. (I know that I want to include it in RFC8366/BRSKI voucher-requests, once that is an RFC) I don't think this communication can ever be via certificate, while the final attestation results could be placed inside a certificate. Ned> Email may not be the best way to try to illustrate but here goes. I Ned> assert that Eric's diagram can be recast into two graphs where graph Ned> (a) is the sub-component attester (A1), the local verifier (V1) and Ned> a relying party (RP). The second graph (b) consists of the top level Ned> Attester (A2), a remote verifier (V2) and the same relying party Ned> (RP). Ned> Looks something like: Ned> (a) A1 --- E1 ---> V1 --- AR1 ---> RP; Ned> (b) A2 --- E2 ---> V2 --- AR2 ---> RP. I agree this is a reasonable diagram. Ned> If it makes sense to define "routing claims" that assert that A2 Ned> intended to piggy back AR1 with E2 then that should imply that if E2 Ned> = (c1) and c2 = routing claim then E2' = (c1, c2). The conveyance Ned> still carries (AR1, E2') , but possibly the c2 claim names AR1 as Ned> the piggy i.e. c2.name = "AR1". Are you saying that the fact that (b) is relayed via E1 is important, and should be communicated by having E1 sign the transaction as well? Mcr> It could be that there are competitive or regulatory reasons why the Lead Mcr> Attester does not wish to reveal the types of the line cards attached. Mcr> Consider an automobile (or passenger rail car, or human-rated Rocket) that Mcr> needs to attest that it has four good tires (which passed their 20,000km Mcr> inspection), but which does not wish to reveal which manufacturer provided Mcr> those tires. Passing on evidence directly would be a problem. Ned> [nms] Privacy is an important consideration. If Evidence is privacy Ned> sensitive, then it can be encrypted. The routing claims don't Ned> require transparent Evidence to name them. Could compute a hash of E Ned> or AR or if endpoints have security associations, then E and AR can Ned> be encrypted and a digest of ciphertext becomes its name for the Ned> purpose of routing claims (see my response above). Agreed. -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ -- Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-
- [Rats] Composite Evidence Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Smith, Ned
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Dave Thaler
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Michael Richardson
- [Rats] 答复: Composite Evidence Xialiang (Frank, Network Standard & Patent Dept)
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Smith, Ned
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Smith, Ned
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Michael Richardson
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Michael Richardson
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Smith, Ned
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Smith, Ned
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Eric Voit (evoit)
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Laurence Lundblade
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Smith, Ned
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Smith, Ned
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Michael Richardson
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Michael Richardson
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Michael Richardson
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Smith, Ned
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Michael Richardson
- Re: [Rats] Composite Evidence Smith, Ned