Re: [Rats] [sacm] CoSWID and EAT and CWT

Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de> Thu, 28 November 2019 08:40 UTC

Return-Path: <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
X-Original-To: rats@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rats@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4784120088 for <rats@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 00:40:35 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ujLXHSPuwvue for <rats@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 00:40:33 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.72.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6286F120025 for <rats@ietf.org>; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 00:40:33 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (mail.sit.fraunhofer.de [141.12.84.171]) by mailext.sit.fraunhofer.de (8.15.2/8.15.2/Debian-10) with ESMTPS id xAS8eU9N024034 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 28 Nov 2019 09:40:31 +0100
Received: from [134.102.154.106] (134.102.154.106) by mail.sit.fraunhofer.de (141.12.84.171) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.468.0; Thu, 28 Nov 2019 09:40:25 +0100
To: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, "rats@ietf.org" <rats@ietf.org>
References: <2A12D8A3-722A-44D1-8011-218C89C8B50B@island-resort.com> <VI1PR08MB5360236E3583EBD3A78085EDFA490@VI1PR08MB5360.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com> <60C4E362-02FD-4DDF-BFB4-D09D358282D4@arm.com> <b5bca8a7-7e7c-4432-a1be-6cf1fc21c352@sit.fraunhofer.de> <05D67FD7-B95E-4716-B844-2F2F3A09030F@arm.com> <BB362412-1C0B-4BF6-99FF-6BE210C939B5@arm.com> <2bc157dd-deb6-9fb8-40b4-7e10722545e6@sit.fraunhofer.de> <20047.1574929414@dooku.sandelman.ca>
From: Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de>
Message-ID: <0d31154b-e85c-f352-2c59-08d4a0070bb6@sit.fraunhofer.de>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 09:40:24 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <20047.1574929414@dooku.sandelman.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Originating-IP: [134.102.154.106]
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rats/xi3g7bQN1yqR-DyfdndaNnwWBYA>
Subject: Re: [Rats] [sacm] CoSWID and EAT and CWT
X-BeenThere: rats@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Remote Attestation Procedures <rats.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rats>, <mailto:rats-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rats/>
List-Post: <mailto:rats@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rats-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats>, <mailto:rats-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 08:40:36 -0000

I am not convinced that the gap is as big as illustrated.

Maybe because I need a use case description why the "boot/recovery roms" 
are already creating EAT and not a software component running in the TEE.

Creating Measurements & Creating EAT are not tightly coupled time-wise, 
is my assumption today, for example in a cell-phone, I'd assume today.

I am in full agreement, that the entire SUIT Manifest would be over-kill 
in the stages "boot/recovery roms". Although, I know of recovery roms 
that do exactly that: retrieving a SUTI Manifest including firmware to 
do... well recovery.

Viele Grüße,

Henk

On 28.11.19 09:23, Michael Richardson wrote:
> 
> Henk Birkholz <henk.birkholz@sit.fraunhofer.de> wrote:
>      > to your first point: I am not sure what legacy systems that would be able to
>      > create/process EAT would not be able to process a SUIT manifest. Could you
>      > elaborate on that?
> 
> I think that an example is in your hand, a smartphone.
> I think that their boot/recovery roms do not process SUIT today, but it would
> be possible to generate measurements in EAT format as to what is running
> if the measurements are available.
> 
>      > I'd maybe not call that a dependency, but rather synergy
>      > in data models, but I am under the suspicion that I simply don't understand
>      > the scenario that you are talking about.
> 
> I think that the synnergy makes sense to me.
> Just because we describe what is running using SUIT terminology and
> constructs does not mean that we have use the entire Manifest.
> 
> 
> --
> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
>   -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> RATS mailing list
> RATS@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rats
>