IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Raw] Proposed RAW charter

<Thomas.Graeupl@dlr.de> Thu, 16 January 2020 08:55 UTC

Return-Path: <Thomas.Graeupl@dlr.de>
X-Original-To: raw@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: raw@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68ED312002F for <raw@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 00:55:06 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.199
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W_CZu4VQBucu for <raw@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 00:54:59 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mailin.dlr.de (mailin.dlr.de [194.94.201.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E075B120019 for <raw@ietf.org>; Thu, 16 Jan 2020 00:54:58 -0800 (PST)
IronPort-SDR: 7YiV6dyKx5Ox4oiZ+3TAINzMxP4upncF/tWkawTeu88RENrgSua130NgoEO4xiTTaGO3eCzN/r 7GsvQ+WzwVMg==
IronPort-PHdr: 9a23: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
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A2H2CACFJCBe/xWKuAplHAEBAQEBBwEBEQEEBAEBgXsCgSNTgQoTgTuEBqpdgXoJAQEBAQEBAQEBBwETHAEBhEACF4IQOgQNAgMBDAEBBQEBAQEBBQQBAQKGLII7IoNXBiMKXAIBSgICAjAlAgQBCREMB4MMgX2rPYEyhUqFEYE2AY4xhGKHWYJeBJBOhVyZIAeBSI10iSgjjmOMDI5cmwMCBAIEBQIVgWwLgW1xgzxPGA2WR41AgRABAQ
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.70,325,1574118000"; d="scan'208,217"; a="31159076"
From: Thomas.Graeupl@dlr.de
To: David.Lake@Dell.com, db3546@att.com, bebemaster@gmail.com, raw@ietf.org
Thread-Topic: [Raw] Proposed RAW charter
Thread-Index: AdXKVnmbULuYyq59Tr2J+ZIiJo18pwAm2nmAAADSs4AABppkgABLKOAgAACt2YAAAk9vAA==
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 08:54:55 +0000
Message-ID: <8eff22c969904b8e918fa0a0850c23ec@dlr.de>
References: <F64C10EAA68C8044B33656FA214632C8AF87FBBE@MISOUT7MSGUSRDE.ITServices.sbc.com> <CA+-pDCfwfgF3p+qM1ge-uJANPMSR_=dC2U5ZC2bQw8aYpzWf-A@mail.gmail.com> <015f01d5cafd$9043d980$b0cb8c80$@dell.com> <F64C10EAA68C8044B33656FA214632C8AF883040@MISOUT7MSGUSRDE.ITServices.sbc.com> <8819338715d54758b7743a01129a6592@dlr.de> <009a01d5cc47$5328ba20$f97a2e60$@dell.com>
In-Reply-To: <009a01d5cc47$5328ba20$f97a2e60$@dell.com>
Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US
Content-Language: de-DE
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-tm-snts-smtp: 38537ED5ECCCD272C931903FF86D4CD94EFDB2507534272D4B20E19AD939F4712000:8
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8eff22c969904b8e918fa0a0850c23ecdlrde_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/raw/1SZzHJHTtmVcylAB6ALEwaD3lsw>
Subject: Re: [Raw] Proposed RAW charter
X-BeenThere: raw@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: reliable and available wireless <raw.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/raw>, <mailto:raw-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/raw/>
List-Post: <mailto:raw@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:raw-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raw>, <mailto:raw-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 08:55:06 -0000

My comment was more general – are we limiting RAW to providing Reliable and Available IP Wireless services or are we looking at providing Reliable and Available Wireless whether the protocol is IP or something else.

[TG] My understanding was “Reliable and Available IP Wireless services”. At least, this would be the work most appreciated by the aviation community.


I have a general concern that when it comes to small-payload IOT services, often an IP header over the air interface is very wasteful in terms of spectrum (ratio of header:payload).   This does not preclude the backhaul being IP but we already have a plethora of non-IP OTA solutions which could also benefit from work in RAW.

[TG] I agree. The aeronautical use case is, however, more related to having two (or more) possibly different wireless links and to use them to provide more reliable and available IPv6 based data transfer than it would be possible using just one link.

The desire to have an IP based solution comes mainly from the fact that there is already a plethora of proprietary or legacy solutions in place that have become difficult to manage over time.

The ratio header/payload is certainly a concern, although the situation is not as bad as in the IOT case. Aeronautical links like LDACS provide in the order of 500 kbit/s up to a few Mbit/s. Satellite links for air traffic guidance are similar.

Thomas

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email