Re: [Raw] Proposed RAW charter

<David.Lake@Dell.com> Thu, 16 January 2020 08:31 UTC

From: David.Lake@Dell.com
To: Thomas.Graeupl@dlr.de, db3546@att.com, David.Lake@Dell.com, bebemaster@gmail.com, raw@ietf.org
Thread-Topic: [Raw] Proposed RAW charter
Thread-Index: AdXKVnmbULuYyq59Tr2J+ZIiJo18pwAo8uqAAADSjQAABpqKgABJoHqAAAI1poA=
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 08:31:21 +0000
Message-ID: <009a01d5cc47$5328ba20$f97a2e60$@dell.com>
References: <F64C10EAA68C8044B33656FA214632C8AF87FBBE@MISOUT7MSGUSRDE.ITServices.sbc.com> <CA+-pDCfwfgF3p+qM1ge-uJANPMSR_=dC2U5ZC2bQw8aYpzWf-A@mail.gmail.com> <015f01d5cafd$9043d980$b0cb8c80$@dell.com> <F64C10EAA68C8044B33656FA214632C8AF883040@MISOUT7MSGUSRDE.ITServices.sbc.com> <8819338715d54758b7743a01129a6592@dlr.de>
In-Reply-To: <8819338715d54758b7743a01129a6592@dlr.de>
Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1
x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted
x-originating-ip: [163.244.62.186]
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_009a01d5cc475328ba20f97a2e60dellcom_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.138, 18.0.572 definitions=2020-01-16_02:2020-01-16, 2020-01-15 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=961 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 priorityscore=1501 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 adultscore=0 clxscore=1015 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-2001160072
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 priorityscore=1501 adultscore=0 impostorscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-1910280000 definitions=main-2001160072
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/raw/a1rGV-YzzH4XuC-umI6m7uWa1IE>
Subject: Re: [Raw] Proposed RAW charter
X-BeenThere: raw@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: reliable and available wireless <raw.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/raw>, <mailto:raw-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/raw/>
List-Post: <mailto:raw@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:raw-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raw>, <mailto:raw-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 08:31:32 -0000

Understood and thank you for the clarification.

My comment was more general – are we limiting RAW to providing Reliable and Available IP Wireless services or are we looking at providing Reliable and Available Wireless whether the protocol is IP or something else.

I have a general concern that when it comes to small-payload IOT services, often an IP header over the air interface is very wasteful in terms of spectrum (ratio of header:payload).   This does not preclude the backhaul being IP but we already have a plethora of non-IP OTA solutions which could also benefit from work in RAW.

David

From: Thomas.Graeupl@dlr.de <Thomas.Graeupl@dlr.de>
Sent: 16 January 2020 07:28
To: db3546@att.com; David.Lake@Dell.com; bebemaster@gmail.com; raw@ietf.org
Subject: AW: [Raw] Proposed RAW charter


[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
Maybe I can clarify this a little below.
Thomas


<DL> LDACS does not use IP.   A number of other systems where we need to create Reliable and Available Wireless paths do not use IP.   This limits the applicability of the technology.  Is it the PATH we wish to make Reliable and Available or the Protocol? </DL>
[deborah] This is on the Layer 3 aspect – input was that there was interest in having IP connectivity (draft-maeurer-raw-ldacs).

LDACS is indeed a layer 2 wireless technology, so it technically does not use IP over the wireless link for its own purposes (although it may use IP in the backhaul control plane connecting the ground stations). However, the point of developing LDACS is to have an aeronautical data link supporting (user plane) IPv6. Something that does not exist for air traffic control up to now. (Passenger entertainment networks are different, but not in the scope of LDACS).

This is also where RAW would help the aeronautical community. Discussing how IPv6 can be used reliably and available of wireless link(s) (which are LDACS and maybe satellite in our case, but might be other links for other use cases).



——————————————————————————
Deutsches Zentrum für Luft- und Raumfahrt e.V. (DLR)
German Aerospace Center
Institute of Communications and Navigation | Oberpfaffenhofen | 82234 Wessling | Germany

Dr. Thomas Gräupl
Telephone +49 8153 28 4218 | thomas.graeupl@dlr.de<mailto:thomas.graeupl@dlr.de>
www.DLR.de<http://www.dlr.de/>

[Raw] Proposed RAW charter BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A
Re: [Raw] [manet] Fwd: Proposed RAW charter Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
Re: [Raw] Proposed RAW charter Justin Dean
Re: [Raw] Proposed RAW charter David.Lake
Re: [Raw] Proposed RAW charter Prof. Diego Dujovne
Re: [Raw] Proposed RAW charter BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A
Re: [Raw] Proposed RAW charter Thomas.Graeupl
Re: [Raw] Proposed RAW charter David.Lake
Re: [Raw] Proposed RAW charter Thomas.Graeupl
Re: [Raw] Proposed RAW charter Pascal Thubert (pthubert)