Re: [Raw] RAW use-cases draft

"Georgios Z. Papadopoulos" <georgios.papadopoulos@imt-atlantique.fr> Wed, 04 December 2019 09:21 UTC

Return-Path: <georgios.papadopoulos@imt-atlantique.fr>
X-Original-To: raw@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: raw@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41AE6120024 for <raw@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 01:21:20 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.998
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=imt-atlantique.fr
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LYyMDk6cii1E for <raw@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 01:21:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: from zproxy120.enst.fr (zproxy120.enst.fr [137.194.2.193]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3FC9C120119 for <raw@ietf.org>; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 01:21:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by zproxy120.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CDEA807DB; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:21:14 +0100 (CET)
Received: from zproxy120.enst.fr ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (zproxy120.enst.fr [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id Rd1czSa90M0Z; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:21:13 +0100 (CET)
Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by zproxy120.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2A9380F9C; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:21:13 +0100 (CET)
DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 zproxy120.enst.fr C2A9380F9C
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=imt-atlantique.fr; s=50EA75E8-DE22-11E6-A6DE-0662BA474D24; t=1575451273; bh=Bp94keXo95iaOzgIfuxq30+/s4GLan6CmfuoVfL/QWw=; h=Mime-Version:From:Date:Message-Id:To; b=cyJFweAhjYTHtuBKnotd141XOZlGwQGvF/FssBAzL7ok11ZQZK2L1Ap3+UTnEtg/3 Yj+1kcLOvxYHbkbK6OZchpoehphiDwPaZJPC2/lsdx1jJOf6a0Yutgeq60xcuo8eZk X9jvT2Jdp4pxYjTOdCNnMurCclX32X8294zUec2A=
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zproxy120.enst.fr
Received: from zproxy120.enst.fr ([IPv6:::1]) by localhost (zproxy120.enst.fr [IPv6:::1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 5AYVaM9INaAB; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:21:13 +0100 (CET)
Received: from [IPv6:2001:660:7301:3728:79a3:1bbc:ba39:d616] (unknown [IPv6:2001:660:7301:3728:79a3:1bbc:ba39:d616]) by zproxy120.enst.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7ACEB80D29; Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:21:13 +0100 (CET)
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B92BAC9E-B12B-4600-BD42-826B97649E3B"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\))
From: "Georgios Z. Papadopoulos" <georgios.papadopoulos@imt-atlantique.fr>
In-Reply-To: <c0912851-835c-889b-e662-7db5ae5d22d7@unibw.de>
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2019 10:21:13 +0100
Cc: "Nils.Maeurer@dlr.de" <Nils.Maeurer@dlr.de>, "Thomas.Graeupl@dlr.de" <Thomas.Graeupl@dlr.de>, "raw@ietf.org" <raw@ietf.org>
Message-Id: <702A3F41-E70E-4C18-A83D-53CE5BF12FDC@imt-atlantique.fr>
References: <7D5469BD-5F3A-4AF1-8E82-F40B5CF4C0F6@imt-atlantique.fr> <c0912851-835c-889b-e662-7db5ae5d22d7@unibw.de>
To: "Dr. Corinna Schmitt" <corinna.schmitt@unibw.de>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/raw/rjYTLybUl1N4tbXsbeeeL_at6tY>
Subject: Re: [Raw] RAW use-cases draft
X-BeenThere: raw@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: reliable and available wireless <raw.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/raw>, <mailto:raw-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/raw/>
List-Post: <mailto:raw@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:raw-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/raw>, <mailto:raw-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2019 09:21:20 -0000

Dear Corina,

Thank you so much for this.
We should work now on the .02 version.

Keep you posted,
Georgios



> On Dec 2, 2019, at 14:26, Dr. Corinna Schmitt <corinna.schmitt@unibw.de> wrote:
> 
> Dear Georgies,
> 
> I do not know if Nils already answered as he is currently traveling.
> So here is some text copied from out LDACS draft (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-maeurer-raw-ldacs-00 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-maeurer-raw-ldacs-00>) from Chapter 3 entitled "Motivation and Use Cases:
> 
> 
> 3 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-maeurer-raw-ldacs-00#section-3>.  Motivation and Use Cases
> 
> 
> 
>    Aircraft are currently connected to Air-Traffic Control (ATC) and
>    Airline Operational Control (AOC) via voice and data communications
>    systems through all phases of a flight.  Within the airport terminal,
>    connectivity is focused on high bandwidth communications, while
>    during en-route high reliability, robustness, and range is the main
>    focus.  Voice communications may use the same or different equipment
>    as data communications systems.  In the following the main
>    differences between voice and data communications capabilities are
>    summarized.  The assumed use cases for LDACS completes the list of
>    use cases stated in [RAW-USE-CASES <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-maeurer-raw-ldacs-00#ref-RAW-USE-CASES>] and the list of reliable and
>    available wireless technologies presented in [RAW-TECHNOS <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-maeurer-raw-ldacs-00#ref-RAW-TECHNOS>].
> 
> 3.1 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-maeurer-raw-ldacs-00#section-3.1>.  Voice Communications Today
> 
> 
> 
>    Voice links are used for Air-To-Ground (A/G) and Air-To-Air (A/A)
>    communications.  The communication equipment is either ground-based
>    working in the High Frequency (HF) or Very High Frequency (VHF)
>    frequency band or satellite-based.  All voice communications is
>    operated via open broadcast channels without any authentication,
>    encryption or other protective measures.  The use of well-proven
>    communication procedures via broadcast channels helps to enhance the
>    safety of communications by taking into account that other users may
>    encounter communication problems and may be supported, if required.
>    The main voice communications media is still the analogue VHF Double
>    Side-Band Amplitude Modulation (DSB-AM) communications technique,
>    supplemented by HF Single Side-Band Amplitude Modulation (SSB-AM) and
>    satellite communications for remote and oceanic areas.  DSB-AM has
>    been in use since 1948, works reliably and safely, and uses low-cost
>    communication equipment.  These are the main reasons why VHF DSB-AM
>    communications is still in use, and it is likely that this technology
>    will remain in service for many more years.  This however results in
>    current operational limitations and becomes impediments in deploying
>    new Air-Traffic Management (ATM) applications, such as flight-centric
>    operation with point-to-point communications.
> 
> 3.2 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-maeurer-raw-ldacs-00#section-3.2>.  Data Communications Today
> 
> 
> 
>    Like for voice, data communications into the cockpit is currently
>    provided by ground-based equipment operating either on HF or VHF
>    radio bands or by legacy satellite systems.  All these communication
>    systems are using narrowband radio channels with a data throughput
>    capacity of some kilobits per second.  While the aircraft is on
>    ground some additional communications systems are available, like
>    Aeronautical Mobile Airport Communication System (AeroMACS),
>    operating in the Airport (APT) domain and able to deliver broadband
>    communication capability.
> 
>    The data communication networks used for the transmission of data
>    relating to the safety and regularity of the flight must be strictly
>    isolated from those providing entertainment services to passengers.
>    This leads to a situation that the flight crews are supported by
>    narrowband services during flight while passengers have access to
>    inflight broadband services.  The current HF and VHF data links
>    cannot provide broadband services now or in the future, due to the
>    lack of available spectrum.  This technical shortcoming is becoming a
>    limitation to enhanced ATM operations, such as Trajectory-Based
>    Operations (TBO) and 4D trajectory negotiations.
> 
>    Satellite-based communications are currently under investigation and
>    enhanced capabilities are under development which will be able to
>    provide inflight broadband services and communications supporting the
>    safety and regularity of the flight.  In parallel, the ground-based
>    broadband data link technology LDACS is being standardized by ICAO
>    and has recently shown its maturity during flight tests [SCH191 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-maeurer-raw-ldacs-00#ref-SCH191>].
>    The LDACS technology is scalable, secure and spectrum efficient and
>    provides significant advantages to the users and service providers.
>    It is expected that both - satellite systems and LDACS - will be
>    deployed to support the future aeronautical communication needs as
>    envisaged by the ICAO Global Air Navigation Plan (GANP). 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Corinna
> 
> 
> 
> Am 28.11.19 um 13:01 schrieb Georgios Z. Papadopoulos:
>> Hello Nils,
>> 
>> Could you please provide some text about the aeronautical communications use case thus, we could update the draft accordingly.
>> Or you could directly integrate it to the draft.
>> 
>> thanks,
>> Georgios
> 
> -- 
> ******************************************************
> 
> Dr. Corinna Schmitt
> Researcher and Laboratory Supervisor
> 
> Research Institute CODE
> Universität der Bundeswehr München
> 
> Werner-Heisenberg-Weg 39
> 85577 Neubiberg, Germany
> 
> Phone: +49 (0)89 6004 7314
> Email: corinna.schmitt@unibw.de <mailto:corinna.schmitt@unibw.de>
> https://www.unibw.de/code <https://www.unibw.de/code>
> https://www.corinna-schmitt.de <https://www.corinna-schmitt.de/>