[re-ECN] TCP's "Dynamic Range"
John Leslie <john@jlc.net> Mon, 26 October 2009 13:36 UTC
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Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:36:40 -0400
From: John Leslie <john@jlc.net>
To: Bob Briscoe <rbriscoe@jungle.bt.co.uk>
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Cc: re-ecn@ietf.org
Subject: [re-ECN] TCP's "Dynamic Range"
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Bob Briscoe <rbriscoe@jungle.bt.co.uk> wrote: > At 22:06 25/10/2009, Leslie Daigle wrote: >>Bob Briscoe wrote: >>> >>> I've been thinking... We should add an item to the many purposes list: >>> >>> - evolution path beyond TCP (running out of dynamic range) >> >> Which is pretty cool, but on the bof agenda might lead to some >> ratholing on whether we're just bashing TCP, no? > > [BB] Not at all. Everyone in the transport area knows TCP has run out > of dynamic range. It's a well-known problem. I've been thinking somewhat along this line, though I wasn't using the term "dynamic range", but rather considering signal-to-noise in our feedback function. Beyond any question, TCP has been successful at curing "congestion collapse" -- which is, after all, what it aimed to do. But packet loss, as a feedback signal, is frankly terribly unsuited to fine-tuning how to share bandwidth at the bottlenecks. It's not, IMHO, "bashing" TCP to point out this difference. Network operators, at best, can only estimate packet loss, not measure it meaningfully, and even if they could measure it with 100% accuracy, they'd have no hope of relating packet loss to the backoff it signals. That's because the multiplicative decrease it signals is based on end-to-end flows at a higher layer. We're looking at five or more orders of magnitude difference in the amount of backoff signaled by a packet lost. For a network operator, the signal is quite lost in the noise! As we review the history of TCP, we notice that attempts to move away from packet loss have failed to dependably avoid congestion collapse: thus implementations tend to depend entirely on packet loss to signal backoff; and other congestion-notification tends to be ignored or even suppressed. (BTW, that's an issue we need to be prepared to discuss: how can re-ecn operate when ECN marks are suppressed? Even though most of the suppression history concerns ICMP, there will be folks who think ECN will suffer similar suppression.) We should recognize that multiplicative-decrease on packet loss is a proven winner for avoiding congestion collapse, and concentrate on what's a better signal for management of bottleneck bandwidth. I propose a few principles: 1) The signal needs to be visible to the network manager managing the bottleneck; 2) The signal should be distinct enough to be the basis for cost allocation for upgrading the bottleneck; 3) The signal should be visible to end-systems, giving a decent measure of how much to backoff their sending rate; 4) The signal should enable "backpressure" to allow network managers to avoid forwarding too many packets towards the bottleneck; 5) The signal should not involve packet loss. I believe that a properly-designed signalling system can work for at least eight or nine orders of magnitude of sender bandwidth. To be complete, a proposal should probably get into how many bits per signal, but I'm personally convinced that re-ecn can work beyond five orders of magnitude. So, avoiding the bits-per-signal question, are the five principles above sufficient? Are they necessary? Can we come up with a good presentation of such principles for the BoF? -- John Leslie <john@jlc.net>
- [re-ECN] Revised agenda theory Leslie Daigle
- Re: [re-ECN] Revised agenda theory Bob Briscoe
- Re: [re-ECN] Revised agenda theory Leslie Daigle
- Re: [re-ECN] Revised agenda theory toby.moncaster
- Re: [re-ECN] Revised agenda theory Bob Briscoe
- [re-ECN] TCP's "Dynamic Range" John Leslie
- Re: [re-ECN] TCP's "Dynamic Range" Bob Briscoe
- Re: [re-ECN] TCP's "Dynamic Range" Leslie Daigle
- Re: [re-ECN] TCP's "Dynamic Range" Matt Mathis
- Re: [re-ECN] TCP's "Dynamic Range" Leslie Daigle
- Re: [re-ECN] TCP's "Dynamic Range" John Leslie
- [re-ECN] re-echo of drop (was: Re: TCP's "Dynamic… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [re-ECN] re-echo of drop João Taveira Araújo
- Re: [re-ECN] TCP's "Dynamic Range" philip.eardley
- [re-ECN] re-echo of drop Matt Mathis
- Re: [re-ECN] re-echo of drop (was: Re: TCP's "Dyn… Matt Mathis
- Re: [re-ECN] re-echo of drop (was: Re: TCP's "Dyn… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [re-ECN] re-echo of drop João Taveira Araújo
- Re: [re-ECN] re-echo of drop Bob Briscoe