Re: [re-ECN] Evidence of slow network (WAS Re: Comments on "congestionexposure problem" document)

If you Google the words ISP and throttle together, you should find a lot
of people complaining about being throttled by their ISPs , although I
can't find anything that would make a scientific reference

You may also find that the degree of the problem is country dependent


> -----Original Message-----
> From: re-ecn-bounces@ietf.org 
> [mailto:re-ecn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ingemar Johansson S
> Sent: 01 October 2009 07:34
> To: re-ecn@ietf.org
> Cc: Ingemar Johansson S
> Subject: [re-ECN] Evidence of slow network (WAS Re: Comments 
> on "congestionexposure problem" document)
> 
> Hi
> 
> I change the subject line , perhaps somebody else on the list 
> can find a good refernce to strengthen the last sentence in 
> para 1 section 5.1 "The main effect of this has been that 
> users now routinely see their network connections running 
> slow in the evenings"
> 
> I believe the problem exist and I am not worried about my own 
> comments but I can imagine that some people may claim that 
> this WG is going to solve a problem that does not exist. 
> Sorry if I keep nagging but I see a risk that the BoF 
> discussion may evolve around the question "do we have a real 
> problem to solve?"
> 
> I had a look at the CoNEXT contribution, while it describes 
> the traffic growth I don't really see any mention about 
> problems with people experiencing slow networks. I guess it 
> is perhaps difficult to find this info (operators are not 
> likely to publish this kind of reports externally). 
> 
> One comment to the last version of the doc. Section 5.1, para 
> 1 contains a reference to a blog. I see the blog text mainly 
> as a discussion around traffic growth, and not about problems 
> with slow networks, so it would therefore be better to move 
> the refernce to the sentence before. 
> 
> Regards
> Ingemar
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: re-ecn-bounces@ietf.org
> > [mailto:re-ecn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of 
> re-ecn-request@ietf.org
> > Sent: den 30 september 2009 15:48
> > To: re-ecn@ietf.org
> > Subject: re-ECN Digest, Vol 7, Issue 192
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> > Today's Topics:
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> >    1. Re:  Comments on "congestion exposure problem" document
> >       (toby.moncaster@bt.com)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 14:48:25 +0100
> > From: <toby.moncaster@bt.com>
> > Subject: Re: [re-ECN] Comments on "congestion exposure problem"
> > 	document
> > To: <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>om>,	<re-ecn@ietf.org>
> > Message-ID:
> > 	
> > <AEDCAF87EEC94F49BA92EBDD49854CC70D49329B@E03MVZ1-UKDY.domain1
> > .systemhost.net>
> > 	
> > Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
> > 
> > Hi Ingemar,
> > 
> > There is a reasonably recent paper from Kenjiro Cho et al. in 
> > Japan that includes data that shows a marked pattern of peak 
> > and off-peak traffic in residential networks. It is called 
> > "Observing Slow Crustal Movement in Residential Traffic" 
> > and was presented at CoNEXT last year. 
> > 
> > Is this the sort of reference that would convince you that 
> > the slow network is down to traffic volume as much as server load?
> > 
> > 1 comment inline
> > 
> > Toby
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ingemar Johansson S 
> [mailto:ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com]
> > > Sent: 30 September 2009 07:54
> > > To: re-ecn@ietf.org
> > > Cc: Moncaster,T,Toby,DER3 R; Ingemar Johansson S
> > > Subject: RE: Comments on "congestion exposure problem" document
> > > 
> > > Hi
> > > 
> > > I read through the latest "congestion exposure problem" document
> > > 
> > > A few comments:
> > > 
> > > Section 5.1, last sentence in first para: "The main effect 
> > of this has 
> > > been that users now routinely see their network 
> connections running 
> > > slow in the evenings"
> > > From a laymans perspective I can probably agree with this, I
> > experience
> > > it every now than then when I "surf the internet" from 
> home. I have 
> > > however not been able to determine for sure if the problem 
> > is in the 
> > > network or in the webservers. I would believe that a reference to 
> > > scientific paper or mailing list discussion or whatever 
> > that describes 
> > > this problem would be beneficial.
> > > 
> > > Section 6 (Use cases):
> > > Maybe obvious (and maybe does not fit into the use cases) 
> > but as I see 
> > > it the future results of this WG would be to provide mainly the 
> > > operators with at least one of the tools necessary to give 
> > e.g content 
> > > providers and application developers a sustainable "carrot 
> > and whip" 
> > > offer. "Make your traffic behave according to these rules 
> > and you're 
> > > granted access to our network". I have no opinion regarding 
> > what kinds 
> > > of traffic this would include, I guess time will tell, 
> but the main 
> > > task for the WG should be to provide with one important 
> item to the 
> > > "carrot and whip" toolbox.
> > 
> > Whilst this is indeed one possible outcome of this work, I am 
> > keen at present to show this in an entirely neutral light 
> > until more people have a better understanding of the impact 
> > of this new paradigm...
> > 
> > > 
> > > PS.. Resent as the first effort looked like crap on the list
> > > 
> > > Regards
> > > /Ingemar
> > 
> > 
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