Re: [re-ECN] preliminary draft of problem statement- authors wanted

[<[e-mail]>]

Hi Mirja,

Thanks for the comments, I know the text is a bit of a mess! Hopefully things will get tidied up over the coming week (as we now know this BoF is going ahead for certain...) 

Currently the text is very much a mix of rough notes, blocks of text from various contributors and some edited stuff from me. As I said in the email I haven't myself read through the whole thing - I just wanted to get something out before the weekend for anyone who had some spare time :)

I am intending to devote a whole day this week to tidying things up and hopefully getting rid of any glaring inconsistencies. My intention is to concentrate on better explaining the problem, highlighting that congestion exposure seems to give a nice solution and show that re-feedback (in the more general case e.g. not re-ECN specifically) is a possible embodiment of congestion exposure...

Toby

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mirja Kuehlewind [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: 28 September 2009 16:23
> To: [e-mail]
> Cc: Moncaster,T,Toby,DER3 R
> Subject: Re: [re-ECN] preliminary draft of problem statement- authors
> wanted
> 
> Hi Toby,
> 
> two comments for my side so far:
> 
> Regarding the requirements, I'm not sure if their are understandable
> for somebody who don't know the re-ECN ideas. Although another ordering
> might help. And at this point of the document upstream and downstream
> congestion needs to be explained first.
> 
> In 5.2 I don't see why you are referring to re-ECN in the first
> paragraph while remaining very general in the rest of the section. I
> would prefer to move the reference to re-ECN to the end of the section.
> Where else a direct mention of ECN as a mechanism giving feedback would
> make the idea of re-feedback more clear to me.
> Btw. why has ECN been kicked out completely?
> 
> Mirja
> 
> 
> On Friday 25 September 2009 14:13:03 [e-mail] wrote:
> > Here is what I have done so far. I haven't yet incorporated one of
> > Michael's abstracts and I still haven't added in the proper list of
> > authors. I have heavily edited several sections but have to admit I
> > haven't tried to read through to see if it makes any sense.
> >
> > I am going to leave this now for a couple of days, probably until
> Tuesday.
> > Anyone wanting to edit it in the meantime please feel free!
> >
> > Toby
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________________
> > Toby Moncaster, Senior Researcher, Network Infrastructure Practise
> > B54/70 Adastral Park, Ipswich, IP53RE, UK.  [phone]
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Michael Menth [mailto:[e-mail]]
> > > Sent: 25 September 2009 00:01
> > > To: Moncaster,T,Toby,DER3 R
> > > Cc: [e-mail]
> > > Subject: Re: [re-ECN] preliminary draft of problem statement-
> > > authors wanted
> > >
> > > Hi Toby,
> > >
> > > here is some text for the abstract.
> > >
> > > >    We need to add an abstract summarising the problem and
> pointing
> > > >
> > > >    towards congestion exposure as an answer...
> > >
> > > I like it short:
> > >
> > > The idea of congestion exposure means that a flow reveals an
> > > estimate of the congestion it causes on its remaining downstream
> > > path. It makes policing or other actions depending on downstream
> > > congestion in the Internet more effective and leads thereby to a
> > > more efficient and fairer Internet. This document motivates the
> need
> > > for congestion exposure and illustrates its usefulness in different
> > > use cases. Therefore, actions should be taken to implement a simple
> > > form of congestion exposure in the Internet.
> > >
> > > However, an enumeration for what congestion exposure may be useful
> > > can help to catch the reader's interest:
> > >
> > > The idea of congestion exposure means that a flow reveals an
> > > estimate of the congestion it causes on its remaining downstream
> > > path. Congestion exposure may be useful for various purposes, e.g.,
> > > meaningful policing at network ingresses, congestion-based
> > > accounting between ISPs, fairer bandwidth sharing among users,
> > > increased trust in the congestion-responsiveness of end-systems,
> and
> > > possibly congestion-dependent load balancing and routing.
> Therefore,
> > > congestion exposure leads to a more efficient and fairer Internet.
> > > This document motivates the need for congestion exposure and
> > > illustrates its usefulness in different use cases. Therefore,
> > > actions should be taken to implement a simple form of congestion
> > > exposure in the Internet.
> > >
> > > The abstract may also contain a summary of the problem (I don't
> find
> > > it's necessary in the abstract) and be placed before the text
> above:
> > >
> > > The Internet relies on TCP's congestion control algorithm and saved
> > > it from a major congestion collapse since its adoption. However,
> TCP
> > > is applied on a voluntary base and the bandwidth is fairly shared
> > > among flows instead of users. This is problematic so that ISPs take
> > > simple or advanced policing actions on some sorts of traffic.
> > > However, since congestion on the downstream path of a flow is not
> > > visible, these approaches possibly hit users unnecessarily and are
> > > not effective enough.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > >     Michael
> > >
> > > [e-mail] schrieb:
> > > > Hi Michael,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the useful feedback. Clearly this document is still in
> > > > its very early stages. I will try and produce a new version by
> end
> > > > of the week  which will hopefully address some of your comments.
> > > >
> > > > Meanwhile I am still keen to get volunteers willing to contribute
> > >
> > > chunks
> > >
> > > > of text for any of the sections.
> > > >
> > > > Toby
> > > >
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Michael Menth [mailto:[e-mail]]
> > > >> Sent: 23 September 2009 22:41
> > > >> To: Moncaster,T,Toby,DER3 R
> > > >> Cc: [e-mail]
> > > >> Subject: Re: [re-ECN] preliminary draft of problem statement-
> > >
> > > authors
> > >
> > > >> wanted
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi Toby,
> > > >>
> > > >> I read the whole document and still it is unclear in many parts.
> > > >> I marked them in the attached doc-file. I hope this helps to
> > > >> improve
> > >
> > > its
> > >
> > > >> clarity.
> > > >>
> > > >> Regards,
> > > >>
> > > >>     Michael
> > > >>
> > > >> [e-mail] schrieb:
> > > >>> Hi All,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> As promised here is a new draft of the problem statement with a
> > > >>> bit
> > > >>
> > > >> more meat on the bones. There is still an awful lot of work to
> be
> > >
> > > done
> > >
> > > >> on this and not too much time to do it. Our absolute deadline to
> > > >> get something in is October 19th - only just over 3 weeks
> away...
> > > >>
> > > >>> As before I would welcome any contributions of text or general
> > > >>
> > > >> comments. When I have a bit more time I will do proper xml2rfc
> > >
> > > author
> > >
> > > >> entries for everyone that has contributed... For political
> > > >> reasons I want it to be clear that this is a document that has
> > > >> been worked on from people across the whole range of the IETF
> community.
> > > >>
> > > >>> Toby
> > >
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________
> > >
> > > >>> Toby Moncaster, Senior Researcher, Network Infrastructure
> > > >>> Practise B54/70 Adastral Park, Ipswich, IP53RE, UK.  +44 7918
> > > >>> 901170
> > > >
> > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> > > > ---
> > > >
> > > >> -
> > > >>
> > > >>> --
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> re-ECN mailing list
> > > >>> [e-mail]
> > > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/re-ecn
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor University of Wuerzburg,
> > > >> Institute of Computer Science Am Hubland,
> > >
> > > D-
> > >
> > > >> 97074 Wuerzburg, Germany, room B206
> > > >> phone: [phone] (new), fax: [phone]
> > > >> mailto:[e-mail]
> > > >> http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Michael Menth, Assistant Professor University of Wuerzburg,
> > > Institute of Computer Science Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg,
> > > Germany, room B206
> > > phone: [phone] (new), fax: [phone]
> > > mailto:[e-mail]
> > > http://www3.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/research/ngn
> 
> 
> 
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dipl.-Ing. Mirja Kühlewind
> Institute of Communication Networks and Computer Engineering (IKR)
> University of Stuttgart, Germany Pfaffenwaldring 47, D-70569 Stuttgart
> 
> web: www.ikr.uni-stuttgart.de
> email: [e-mail]
> tel: [phone]
> -------------------------------------------------------------------