Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS

Erik Sy <sy@informatik.uni-hamburg.de> Thu, 29 August 2019 21:28 UTC

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References: <CAHbrMsBhR1yaLxQk7wZk54Jdf5nvkS03KC3UTae0Famu2+SV8g@mail.gmail.com> <4568720.uvMTqBdgP4@linux-9daj> <fb12f102-714d-95cc-c6cc-0871a2df9f50@informatik.uni-hamburg.de> <34813218.VKkrhzyXsx@linux-9daj> <ae355776-a1bb-cf23-f380-133439661d1f@informatik.uni-hamburg.de> <1171283855.590.1566558699991@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com> <a8d9398b-4fea-0a1e-3fa7-5954d001f9ea@informatik.uni-hamburg.de> <1405682425.665.1566561941610@appsuite-gw1.open-xchange.com> <220061a8-608c-0a87-4656-213c87979284@informatik.uni-hamburg.de> <849BE7D4-A07E-496B-B413-E1C979390DA8@osterweil.net> <b2b3e56a-c577-f08a-627a-f54e2e6fadb6@informatik.uni-hamburg.de> <f093a605-6e7d-0237-df5c-441d6789c66f@erik-sy.de> <54892F22-27E4-4444-9CC8-2D9E84A9668F@dukhovni.org> <4ec7dd1d-e914-0adb-4240-296f2f762b5f@informatik.uni-hamburg.de> <ADC6E119-0EED-4990-A975-F594C9282872@dukhovni.org>
From: Erik Sy <sy@informatik.uni-hamburg.de>
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Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2019 23:28:13 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Resolverless-dns] Paper on Resolver-less DNS
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On 8/29/19 17:34, Viktor Dukhovni wrote:
> Resolver-less DNS as proposed disregards long-standing defenses
> against address forgery by third parties,
Can you please explain this point?
>  breaks geo load-balancing,
No, there are no new issues with geo load-balancing compared to using a
public DNS resolver.
> breaks local filters that protect networks against known bad actors,
> and IDS systems that detect compromised nodes.
If you think there are any new issues compared to using a public DNS
resolver, I would appreciate you explaining these points.
>
> It introduce a new cache-poisoning channel, and surprising differences
> between the IP addresses a browser might use to reach a site from cold
> start vs. after visiting some unrelated site.
Also traditional DNS resolvers are vulnerable to cache-poisoning attacks.
>
> In the case of IPv6 it can be used to fingerprint and track clients by
> giving them ephemeral client-specific addresses (in the server's /64
> or broader prefix) for third-party servers, and then proxying their
> connections (at layer 4) to the real server, while tracking the
> client's access to each site.
This tracking mechanism is also feasible using traditional DNS.
>> At least the given mechanism needs also to provide a significant
>> security benefit. In my view, the additional benefit of DNSSEC+ DANE
>> compared to Certificate Transparency + Strict Transport Security (HSTS
>> or MTA-STS) is for the majority of server operators or users not relevant.
> Let's not mix up HTTP and MTA-to-MTA SMTP.  In SMTP, DANE has significantly
> broader deployment (protected domains) than MTA-STS.
Please note that MTA-STS is still a very young protocol.
>> In my view, supporting DNSSEC + DANE TLSA in resolver-less DNS makes
>> only sense if the server provides a full DNSSEC validation chain because
>> everything else seems to introduce significant delays.
> In any case, the issue at hand is DNS, not DANE.  A client that wants TLSA
> records is not going to obtain them via resolver-less DNS, which IIRC is
> just about IP addresses.

Resolver-less DNS is also concerned about the validation of the obtained
DNS records. Independently, of DANE TLSA which Chromes does not intend
to support there is still a security benefit of using DNSSEC to validate
the integrity of the received DNS records. If it is technically feasible
to integrate a DNSSEC validation in resolver-less DNS, then this sounds
like a good idea to me.

Erik