Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> is back, was: New xml2rfc release: v2.32.0
Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> Sat, 05 October 2019 04:14 UTC
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To: Sandy Ginoza <sginoza@amsl.com>
Cc: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, "HANSEN, TONY L" <tony@att.com>, "xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org" <xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>, "rfc-markdown@ietf.org" <rfc-markdown@ietf.org>
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From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
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Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2019 06:08:59 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> is back, was: New xml2rfc release: v2.32.0
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On 04.10.2019 21:00, Sandy Ginoza wrote: > ... > I believe the editor used U+2028 here to avoid additional blank lines within the quote. This is what we get when we use <t> tags. > > | The packet PW appears as a single point-to-point link to the > | client layer. Network-layer adjacency formation and maintenance > | between the client equipments will follow the normal practice > | needed to support the required relationship in the client layer. > | > | ... > | > | This packet pseudowire is used to transport all of the required > | layer 2 and layer 3 protocols between LSR1 and LSR2. > > > I don’t think &br; is needed here, but see the examples below. My first reaction was that if the citation skips a paragraph, then having the dots on a separate line would be the right thing. Alternatively, if text inside a paragraph was skipped, I'd use inline " ... " or " (...) ". So I checked the source of the citation and found that the first part is from <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6658#section-3>, while the second part is extracted from the previous section. So I would argue that this is a strange use of <blockquote>. These should be *two* <blockquote>s. > ... > a) This issue has come up quite a bit when we were trying to update lists/sublists where the authors want no whitespace between the indented items (no bullets; just a line break). For example, RFC 8668 (v3 files not yet posted) contains the following in the v2 text: > > L2 Bundle Member Attributes > > Type: 25 > Length: Number of octets to follow > > Parent L3 Neighbor Descriptor > > L3 Neighbor System ID + pseudonode ID (7 octets) > Flags: 1-octet field of the following flags: > > We were able to replicate this spacing with the following XML, which seems bad because we have empty <dd/> to get the right spacing. If there is a better way to do this, please let us know. > > <ul empty="true"> > <li> > <dl spacing="compact"><dt>L3 Neighbor System ID + pseudonode ID (7 octets) > </dt><dd></dd> > <dt>Flags: 1-octet field of the following flags:</dt><dd></dd> > </dl> Well, the obvious answer is: don't. If it's not a definition list, don't use <dl>. In general, we really need to stop to focus on the TXT output. Bending the vocabulary to get precisely a certain text output is the wrong path. What's really relevant is getting proper *HTML* output. I have my doubts that an extra blank line here is really a problem. > b) A similar example about trying to force a line break: Is there a better way to do this? > > section 3 of https://www.rfc-editor.org/v3test/rfc8668_AR2.txt > https://www.rfc-editor.org/v3test/rfc8668_AR2.xml > > Desired output: > > L2 Bundle Member Link Local Identifiers > (4 * Number of L2 Bundle Member Descriptors octets) > > How we forced the break in XML: > > <t>L2 Bundle Member Link Local Identifiers (4 * Number of&nb\ > sp;L2 Bundle Member Descriptors octets)</t> > > text output is good enough: > L2 Bundle Member Link Local Identifiers > (4 * Number of L2 Bundle Member Descriptors octets) But HTML will put it onto one line is the viewport is wide enough. > ---- > same thing as above, but with a different use of <ol>: > > section 3 of https://www.rfc-editor.org/v3test/rfc8668_AR4.txt > https://www.rfc-editor.org/v3test/rfc8668_AR4.xml > > text output: > - L2 Bundle Member Link Local Identifiers > (4 * Number of L2 Bundle Member Descriptors octets) I believe the answer is the same as above. Don't. Please really consider whether this is worth the effort. In any case: do not try to add workarounds to get a certain plain text output. Plain text is a secondary output format. The point of the xml2rfc vocabulary is to markup things based on their semantics, not based on a certain desired plain text output. If we can't get acceptable *HTML* output, let's consider the use case and come up with a proper solution (which might be <br/>). > c) Re: https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc8652.html#section-5 > > Uused two <artwork>s to get > > Under /rt:routing/rt:control-plane-protocols > /rt:control-plane-protocol/igmp-mld:igmp, > > and > > Under /rt:routing/rt:control-plane-protocols > /rt:control-plane-protocol/igmp-mld:mld, > > to appear w/ the (seemingly) desired line break. If it were considered running text, then <t> would be right, but there's no <br>. > (Guess we could use <t> and a bunch of and &wj to prevent each 2nd line from breaking, but that seems not ideal.) Why do these need to be on separate lines? (I don't understand the context yet...) > d) The most recent issue has been resolved by the adjustment of font size in the PDF, but the title of the RFC 8658 (also not yet posted) appeared ok in the .html and .txt files, but the PDF was breaking as follows: > > RADIUS Attributes for Softwire > Mechanisms Based on Address plus Port (A > +P) If it breaks inside "A+P" instead of using the whitespace two characters before than this looks like a bug in the formatter to me. > It has been a struggle to convert some of these files and Henrik has been kind enough to review cases and provide input. Understood. I just don't think that re-introducing line breaks through the back door is the right thing here. If they are needed, let's discuss them as as part of the vocabulary. (And yes, there was ample time to have this dicussion; RFC 7991 finished three years ago). Best regards, Julian
- [Rfc-markdown] New xml2rfc release: v2.32.0 Henrik Levkowetz
- [Rfc-markdown] <br> is back, was: [xml2rfc-dev] N… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> is back, wa… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> is back, wa… HANSEN, TONY L
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> is back, wa… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> is back, wa… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> is back, wa… Miek Gieben
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> is back, wa… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> is back, wa… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> i… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> i… Sandy Ginoza
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> i… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> i… Sandy Ginoza
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> i… HANSEN, TONY L
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> i… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> i… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> i… Miek Gieben
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> i… Brian Carpenter
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> i… Miek Gieben
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Miek Gieben
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> i… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> is back, wa… Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> i… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… HANSEN, TONY L
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> i… HANSEN, TONY L
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Sandy Ginoza
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… HANSEN, TONY L
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> i… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> i… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Sandy Ginoza
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Henrik Levkowetz
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> i… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] Compressed sourc… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> i… Julian Reschke