Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> is back, was: New xml2rfc release: v2.32.0

Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de> Fri, 18 October 2019 16:41 UTC

Return-Path: <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
X-Original-To: rfc-markdown@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rfc-markdown@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6448B1200B6; Fri, 18 Oct 2019 09:41:39 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.898
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=gmx.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5aR8Gda1UZ3D; Fri, 18 Oct 2019 09:41:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 462C112000F; Fri, 18 Oct 2019 09:41:35 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1571416875; bh=KAEON6njgpy7HxBzGMdfw9rzBAIVk0+ybt4jQKPkDI4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=cpCoy7Hw8vGCNdjM2ENQW9/2On+VvEE9pedhuEDj0LsAgEojIc1x2j8Y/+mL4d1nn VpiaRxGcnp1d50ido3sinCfR5rpa4sfzULjSA8hha96F6iS9jVFhxyFGaGPXiCBKnf KjqfXhN8e4KjAcVqkAIgnnPk9xZXToPJ4L6dGTOw=
X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c
Received: from [192.168.178.124] ([217.251.138.26]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MrQEn-1hj81N3bsd-00oYha; Fri, 18 Oct 2019 18:41:14 +0200
To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
Cc: "rfc-markdown@ietf.org" <rfc-markdown@ietf.org>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>, "xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org" <xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org>
References: <E1iGMu9-00055y-Ui@durif.tools.ietf.org> <8304e61d-c550-91ea-9e23-eef2cd31240b@gmx.de> <A3513970-EEB0-4DBD-9E6F-A87EBFAF886D@att.com> <de4feaff-8f71-cd38-545c-2d848749251b@levkowetz.com> <f00a671a-6fe4-f5ae-2582-0b78ffa1c256@gmx.de> <1f18382c-d830-b887-f5d3-3f376ae4fdd7@gmx.de> <B15F7AF0-F5A0-401A-9F6E-F7E0E466B6A7@amsl.com> <f4f1b7ba-127a-fbfa-531b-eeff03814281@gmx.de> <71bc8d39-d06c-d900-cc8e-04a48218d75f@gmail.com> <0905DADC-E9D5-47A7-B610-F8A62686D2BD@att.com> <07DBAE10-D1FA-45C4-B7A2-321B265CA302@amsl.com> <694c9244-98ae-1e64-39ef-8756d48b36ef@gmx.de> <860c663b-744f-a033-cc50-96088bb1b33c@gmx.de> <04DCBCE3-2C8C-4B03-9081-EF2B7A5C6087@tzi.org> <b096e29c-02a0-e009-621e-c1eca4712226@levkowetz.com> <4321EEBF-92C2-4405-81BD-899C0FCAC762@tzi.org> <5593c2d9-0bb4-93e9-f5d0-babf194340bf@levkowetz.com> <6BF7D165-EA48-44C1-9153-3F011058561F@tzi.org> <7088451e-745b-a31b-88fb-bce9cb48696a@levkowetz.com>
From: Julian Reschke <julian.reschke@gmx.de>
Message-ID: <efb58534-8112-2303-1967-536daae9ff51@gmx.de>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 18:41:13 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <7088451e-745b-a31b-88fb-bce9cb48696a@levkowetz.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:3kcSmSdi4P5EsgJSWvUYe+9AWxXBYTorKX84Edm0kxq6UmSgQkh w1I0nO60n1OmHZDGgBrAFwBA2BJuC7A3LESZKx9mUiJPCui5yRJHN+isMa6GTsi0sIYqFxo 7MS3MT9VX59ixSFyXyuZIqT8wnXp75xVtm8OSLkTy5Sy+0eOUJMU3FlVeEeQNPgoBjahjBD SQnMU2MphNJYnFYoiQUpQ==
X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:O+2iQdH7K38=:DlU7+yXgxFABOVzmfbjctS aovWz6X9H8A0kVPsIpkgZ+M2GX+GzrujsE/1ljJahvQyG2xegCFI0u9LhVAw0HQVK3HX8ZDjb Z2jD0G66QeLLWyp75Kg8d+V3IfdtH2RNs0nvQSAAJldWrGNvw07vA9yaB4xGzF12FH71GU6W3 kOPFFZajpeddaIyuwOnHuW/p4JU2HhPROGAef0/PGEW3B1AByINKbZlnxJ8OILUyv6kVVvuPH sVMJz4QXcGkybU0WWvYIG+UokZ4U8dGns+sjGRPge2YZOMq/sjjIMqcXRwzTRRHQIp69EQeBh qrEoRPiW90RafuFou+k8IPQpchLz9QE92j74zqVpU1DeYv9JKH4ErpidzA8sjzjptPZhjDo9F AjhPyD9NZatyYrkd8jYdDUtA1EszBeM+jG2BRPtj2SPSKusLAVvDYR9/gvGyR571wMDdgDykX MgcSaoI/+d6maHF6WNqjAKJYXIVeOhykOGdukfuazeA84Ky4BbcW/gdMUj9SGvxLroeV/OZlK BLzzcI00wrT+OShdeLGam5KAoWHas3uHcHxLbtw6YFGEsI27CB0jN5nvZySmA/POejfvJqx1U zENgIRSBXFcB2Lb8hkiItXO1ehY+uCprvvjgGu3EgIiFBgBGHXIMFJD3AliY6wn8HR7ReQ9RV Bhu0lN5GIaa6CFv1xpPEnwrILF6+WxuVs9fhpKqwXksTKtr3E8/3tdQckaEEUwEoH8FRYRlV9 GoIsLTzGlepsInKi4FcrW4GH7L3/U8T2tax1iZb7QLAuecB8vBX+LllObIYNquek4GGsnK+c/ /9i1cHhof5a3hbuxd+QNZAXyzVUhMN8RX0ci8y5E+/46fJ6+cE6Cr1ncf5BDq56Fp8HTV126B FxsffdeepX0oWpI7EgIpKohuQB9w6N9NLRvgOrzAhssqFfJbSk90ITUMHLRsdNPb35nNrbL4z UgZZfpBcmSyh3qxAXEoVLMs75N9GzdYdkxqsOEIfWInzoH6MyU4gQK8p7C/8V7PJHvHfrLC02 jSQnXCP9Yyh8hA8mc4CQ4ERkri9siBHaV0Fawnpx/zqr1viFCsSiGhMsAzuvZ3RdPoHisOuxS tt8kZTPG+dfp1+m4JDOCJcE1JTRVDDeEwxbRFlKDjI6fChM59CWD0gt+Kdx0kLBcajXoeh/6U auS3+aD9pkQjpumjgKlq3uN8uXob75tMcO14sxJYG9Wb6MkVkWa+Z3zMGDUuPrgX6INHQeu3Y PUvFDy/+lLMJdHZ3mwD3Eu86PlUyIFoj8ASB7GhkWcHsNXDwnlFOBEHcyJdM=
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rfc-markdown/ZBu41J7QdZw4A67LR8fMXkAHjJs>
Subject: Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] [xml2rfc] <br> is back, was: New xml2rfc release: v2.32.0
X-BeenThere: rfc-markdown@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "rfc-markdown is a discussion list for people writing I-Ds and RFCs in Markdown and the authors of the tools used for that." <rfc-markdown.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rfc-markdown>, <mailto:rfc-markdown-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rfc-markdown/>
List-Post: <mailto:rfc-markdown@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rfc-markdown-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-markdown>, <mailto:rfc-markdown-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2019 16:41:40 -0000

On 18.10.2019 18:05, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>
> On 2019-10-18 17:49, Carsten Bormann wrote:
>> On Oct 18, 2019, at 16:54, Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd be more than happy to move to <br/> if we could make that useful for
>>> the RPC.
>>>
>>> I think most people who voiced an viewpoint on that was for making it
>>> generally available, but when I proposed how to do that, it seemed to
>>> run into opposition again.
>>
>> There were some questions about line-breaking in titles in general
>> (whether <br/> or U+2028).
>>
>> I think that there is wide consensus about using <br/> in favor of
>> U+2028.
>>
>> The fact that unlike the former, the latter is not visible in the
>> schemas makes U+2028 a great way to cheat around the consensus. We
>> should not do that.
>>
>> As in the question about restricting Unicode character sets, I
>> believe that — as long as the vocabulary has a meaning — the schema
>> (mechanism) is not the place to make restrictions based on beauty,
>> style etc. (policy). So I would prefer to have <br/> in the places in
>> the schema where it has well-defined semantics. We can figure out
>> later whether this is always, only exceptionally, or never good
>> style.
>
> I agree with this.  So again, I propose to permit <br> as a child element
> of these elements, where I think the semantics of a <br> would be well-
> defined:
>
>     blockquote
>     dd
>     dt
>     em
>     li
>     name
>     strong
>     t
>     td
>     th
>     title
>     tt
>
> Should <sub> and <sup> be in that list?  If we compare with the places where
> for instance <bcp14> is permitted, the answer would be 'yes'; but I'm not
> sure it's the right thing to do.
> ...

For <title>, I will continue to ask about the use case (line break
opportunity vs required line break vs title & subtitle), as this affects
what would happen if it occurs in a <reference>, or if there's an <xref>
with format="title".

Best regards, Julian