Re: [Rfc-markdown] No longer need to run xml2rfc --v2v3 before I-D submission

Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> Tue, 27 July 2021 01:31 UTC

Return-Path: <cabo@tzi.org>
X-Original-To: rfc-markdown@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rfc-markdown@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A0343A0DEE for <rfc-markdown@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 26 Jul 2021 18:31:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FfeQyvKl1Jy8 for <rfc-markdown@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 26 Jul 2021 18:31:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de [IPv6:2001:638:708:32::15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E590C3A0DEA for <rfc-markdown@ietf.org>; Mon, 26 Jul 2021 18:31:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.217.118] (p548dcc89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.204.137]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-smtp.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4GYfPy1FJ9z31LH; Tue, 27 Jul 2021 03:31:02 +0200 (CEST)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\))
From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
In-Reply-To: <7B98D0B6-0102-4CE4-B4D6-6FBA04033234@mnot.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 03:31:01 +0200
Cc: rfc-markdown@ietf.org
X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 649042261.595217-bf49c845788c97aea2b7b52df618b411
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <819E19FC-46E3-4FA5-9032-F840B579B605@tzi.org>
References: <20210712034838.B461E209AFFB@ary.qy> <6c781dab-7a40-7031-be1c-d77a182f4cf4@gmail.com> <DE0CD982-D4BE-44A6-9234-B53A756E9717@mnot.net> <bbb8302a-4041-35db-ce61-d2a18b8ebeee@taugh.com> <AB6E5013-C14E-4962-8907-17F241971F9D@tzi.org> <20210719171839.GB24216@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> <DBCC4252-8A2D-473C-82CD-B1B2688586D3@tzi.org> <777A0822-6C16-4967-ABD0-BD35359B9FC5@tzi.org> <974739FF-7EB8-475B-A6A9-CB096D567E91@tzi.org> <10368632-F4A3-4876-A4F0-81C3DDBE002F@mnot.net> <F5519EBC-E453-4552-8B7F-F34425DAD2A1@tzi.org> <F15694DF-6ACD-469F-9CA9-E33C5FC03223@mnot.net> <BC5E00A5-2FBF-45E4-985B-5E67935D3192@tzi.org> <078FD4CC-E219-43F5-8DCD-3C55D8ABEF6D@mnot.net> <9F805284-0053-4B5F-8F89-EF6B4BA48D4A@tzi.org> <7B98D0B6-0102-4CE4-B4D6-6FBA04033234@mnot.net>
To: Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rfc-markdown/_aprbntDDK8egh1P8ZmQwUNt8NA>
Subject: Re: [Rfc-markdown] No longer need to run xml2rfc --v2v3 before I-D submission
X-BeenThere: rfc-markdown@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "rfc-markdown is a discussion list for people writing I-Ds and RFCs in Markdown and the authors of the tools used for that." <rfc-markdown.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rfc-markdown>, <mailto:rfc-markdown-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rfc-markdown/>
List-Post: <mailto:rfc-markdown@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rfc-markdown-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-markdown>, <mailto:rfc-markdown-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 01:31:08 -0000

On 2021-07-27, at 02:34, Mark Nottingham <mnot@mnot.net> wrote:
> 
> I am left with the feeling that v3 is still not really ready for production use.

Well, there is no way around the fact that the RPC is using it for its P.

So we somehow need to make it work for ourselves.

And there is good stuff in there, much better tables, relative references, support for a contributor section that looks like an author section, SVG support, text (and not just text string) support for headings (except that some of it currently seems to break ToC generation), I’m forgetting half of it because I already take it for granted.

You will never get the feedback you need to make these actually usable without pressing them into production.

And the transition strategy to provide a permissive hybrid as the input language for XML2RFC, with an option to generate a restricted, “beautiful” canonical form from that, is much better in practice than theory would make one believe.

Grüße, Carsten