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Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> is back, was: New xml2rfc release: v2.32.0

Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> Fri, 04 October 2019 15:40 UTC

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From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
In-Reply-To: <de4feaff-8f71-cd38-545c-2d848749251b@levkowetz.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2019 17:40:31 +0200
Cc: "HANSEN, TONY L" <tony@att.com>, "xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org" <xml2rfc-dev@ietf.org>, "xml2rfc@ietf.org" <xml2rfc@ietf.org>, "rfc-markdown@ietf.org" <rfc-markdown@ietf.org>
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To: Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com>
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Subject: Re: [Rfc-markdown] [xml2rfc-dev] <br> is back, was: New xml2rfc release: v2.32.0
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Something is not right with the process if we have a clear requirement and an obvious solution, but instead have to resort to using an obscure, widely shunned Unicode feature so we appear not to violate the specification.

Grüße, Carsten


> On Oct 4, 2019, at 17:34, Henrik Levkowetz <henrik@levkowetz.com> wrote:
> 
> Signed PGP part
> 
> On 2019-10-04 17:25, HANSEN, TONY L wrote:
>> On 10/4/19, 10:49 AM, "xml2rfc-dev on behalf of Julian Reschke" <xml2rfc-dev-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of julian.reschke@gmx.de> wrote:
>> 
>>    On 04.10.2019 14:41, Henrik Levkowetz wrote:
>>> ...
>>>   * Improved the handling of U+2028 in text output, and fixed a bug in the
>>>   * handling of U+2028 in the HTML output.
>>> ...
>> 
>>    So U+2028 is Unicode "LINE SEPARATOR". What this means is that xml2rfc
>>    now supports forced line breaks, just a few weeks (months?) after there
>>    was a decision not to include the <br> element.
>> 
>>    I think this is a really bad idea, as opposed to having an explicit <br>
>>    element, because:
>> 
>>    1. It's kind of obscure (hint: browsers do not process it as line break).
>> 
>>    2. The grammar doesn't help people to understand where it is allowed.
>>    Actually, where *is* it allowed? Anywhere?
>> 
>>    So, AFAIC, if we identify cases where we want to allow forced line
>>    breaks, we should allow them explicitly (and in the same way HTML does).
>> 
>> I have always preferred having an explicit <br/> element (however it
>> gets spelled). I fought in the design team to have support for it in
>> at least some limited cases, and think removing it entirely was
>> completely the wrong decision. I'm too much of a pragmatic engineer.
> 
> I'm strongly for having an explicit <br/> element.
> 
> Given a clearly expressed need from the RPC, I will always try to provide
> tools to make it possible for them to do their work.  Without having <br/>
> available, this was a fallback solution.  Continuing to ignore clearly
> expressed needs of the RPC seems unproductive.
> 
> 
> 	Henrik
> 
> 
>

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