Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Future Development Program
"Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com> Thu, 02 April 2020 02:22 UTC
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To: Christian Huitema <huitema@huitema.net>, rfced-future@iab.org
References: <97B63B78-0D49-4007-B8A2-101FB7849C0F@cisco.com> <e1876470-c6aa-da6a-5282-5fe2a4d8d893@cs.tcd.ie> <612878B544D3F4BD620D9650@PSB> <c8b96911-e57f-e324-6c58-042a4ca0a3f2@cs.tcd.ie> <0a9001d60887$02d355e0$087a01a0$@acm.org> <450dc214-2606-d764-a24d-5b91a642f3bb@huitema.net>
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2020 22:22:27 -0400
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rfced-future/jFFLn8sRgB7-3AWZUEFCW0YZRBo>
Subject: Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Future Development Program
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Christian, I am a bit confused by your message. Removing post-approval editing, while it would reduce tension and delay, would also significantly reduce document quality. The RPC does an impressive job of fixing the many minor but significant errors we put in our documents. Ranging from inconsistent terminology to really bad grammar. I, for one, would be really unhappy at trying to decide we did not need that. Yours, Joel On 4/1/2020 9:39 PM, Christian Huitema wrote: > > On 4/1/2020 5:38 PM, Larry Masinter wrote: >>> I hope this process can find a way to deal with such divergent views, or find >>> a role description with which we are all equally unhappy, but with which we >>> can all live;-( >> I think the question is how big a scope of "solutions" should be taken on. >> At the "large scope" are changes to the nature of RFCs and the series >> At the "small scope" end I'd suggest -- without any other change -- focusing on the "AUTH48" status since 48 hours and only the authors cannot proofread everything that needs proofreading. >> >> (History RFC2616 had several errors that were due to bugs in the process of converting Word to text/plain) >> >> I can't tell from the posts and intro material what level of changes to the process you'd want to contemplate. > > > There is indeed an issue with AUTH48, but there is a more general issue > with "changing documents after consensus is declared". > > For the IETF stream, the current process puts the final phase of editing > after the final vote by the IESG. This is a source of both tensions and > delays. The tension is obvious: if a document can be changed after it > has been approved, how do we guarantee that the changes do not change > the meaning of the documents in a way that alters consensus? The process > puts that responsibility on the authors and the AD, but the authors may > or may not have the time to examine the changes closely, and the AD may > or may not be already overloaded. So that create delays, not because the > copy editors are slow, but because the authors and AD end up responding > slowly. > > Removing tensions and delays would make life easier for everybody. > > -- Christian Huitema > >
- [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Future D… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… John C Klensin
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Michael StJohns
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Lucy Lynch
- Re: [Rfced-future] [IAB] Welcome to the RFC Edito… Wes Hardaker
- Re: [Rfced-future] [IAB] Welcome to the RFC Edito… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Rfced-future] [IAB] Welcome to the RFC Edito… Wes Hardaker
- Re: [Rfced-future] [IAB] Welcome to the RFC Edito… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Rfced-future] [IAB] Welcome to the RFC Edito… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Rfced-future] [IAB] Welcome to the RFC Edito… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Rfced-future] [IAB] Welcome to the RFC Edito… John C Klensin
- Re: [Rfced-future] [IAB] Welcome to the RFC Edito… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Rfced-future] [IAB] Welcome to the RFC Edito… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Rfced-future] [IAB] Welcome to the RFC Edito… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Rfced-future] [IAB] Welcome to the RFC Edito… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Rfced-future] [IAB] Welcome to the RFC Edito… Jari Arkko
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [Rfced-future] [IAB] Welcome to the RFC Edito… Mark Nottingham
- Re: [Rfced-future] [IAB] Welcome to the RFC Edito… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Rfced-future] [IAB] Welcome to the RFC Edito… John C Klensin
- Re: [Rfced-future] [IAB] Welcome to the RFC Edito… John Levine
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… John C Klensin
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Larry Masinter
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Michael StJohns
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Michael StJohns
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Larry Masinter
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… John C Klensin
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… jmh.direct@joelhalpern.com
- [Rfced-future] AUTH48 and editing before approval… John C Klensin
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Larry Masinter
- Re: [Rfced-future] AUTH48 and editing before appr… Russ Housley
- Re: [Rfced-future] AUTH48 and editing before appr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Rfced-future] AUTH48 and editing before appr… Russ Housley
- Re: [Rfced-future] AUTH48 and editing before appr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Rfced-future] AUTH48 and editing before appr… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Rfced-future] AUTH48 and editing before appr… Michael StJohns
- Re: [Rfced-future] AUTH48 and editing before appr… Eliot Lear
- Re: [Rfced-future] AUTH48 and editing before appr… Ted Lemon
- Re: [Rfced-future] AUTH48 and editing before appr… John C Klensin
- Re: [Rfced-future] AUTH48 and editing before appr… John Levine
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… John Levine
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… John R. Levine
- [Rfced-future] Up level [Re: AUTH48 and editing b… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Rfced-future] AUTH48 and editing before appr… Russ Housley
- Re: [Rfced-future] AUTH48 and editing before appr… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Larry Masinter
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… John R. Levine
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Julian Reschke
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… John R. Levine
- Re: [Rfced-future] AUTH48 and editing before appr… John C Klensin
- Re: [Rfced-future] AUTH48 and editing before appr… Russ Housley
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… John R. Levine
- Re: [Rfced-future] AUTH48 and editing before appr… John C Klensin
- Re: [Rfced-future] AUTH48 and editing before appr… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… John C Klensin
- Re: [Rfced-future] Welcome to the RFC Editor Futu… John Levine
- Re: [Rfced-future] [IAB] Welcome to the RFC Edito… Mark Nottingham