IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us

Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com> Tue, 10 July 2018 21:51 UTC

Return-Path: <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: rfcplusplus@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rfcplusplus@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C909130E90 for <rfcplusplus@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 14:51:35 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.998
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8FNuxq6zjD8u for <rfcplusplus@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 14:51:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-wm0-x231.google.com (mail-wm0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DCF7B131162 for <rfcplusplus@ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 14:51:31 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-wm0-x231.google.com with SMTP id v128-v6so451500wme.5 for <rfcplusplus@ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 14:51:31 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=JKj/l8aiLcMYrSDC5+hpI5Yv4y6Db/EtttaOClUL9pg=; b=nbj7vFWuiBKA4dahpOKa1ZWCYAPl+6pZzWV/JBoeO3XQpX6Ga+3f8zEX+EyHM9PHVB ARRBrM/QnOUuLTpzhwgYnujpI3Ckg8GhrLHTgfPDPEBOB/Y9CTk4SStTWk026/bEzWvH lnXmYM3YCa9OUUaWIhNK9pufuMNcr6TtoOOM1rgbRmlWSwFKVkfJjWDR5iYr9wTAsJXf sKAeF0w2Yyc4fpEdwMZ4bD+5ZfyVgaSWULotvM+IUpwD8cR/IxtZt2UgOLp0RZB2q3Pk iyB0LcrMB8fi0PVqy+WtUlM6rA/Z5RHBEEGjCUkF18zvCciu1OEPRRo5aYAyKjWOHm75 dXvg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=JKj/l8aiLcMYrSDC5+hpI5Yv4y6Db/EtttaOClUL9pg=; b=QeqpBAI8+x/XWlp9mS9jGimXC6gBjSG+gj+afSTUDh3rV6HeI9vb/M8yPji4YcICXx l56/G1RoNpH4WZLivHrSLLubYiaLyxcFngBJ/n+PgeZTX9VsHAwL1VUHeTNc60Dwp00X MweDHU5HUSl7qCsPTuCHlnSsjbH7fNf4bE3K0JK7w+NdP5tGCmK0W9slmz7RjZr3Gbww A+Huxv7pn77+rCyikdr8iTDDQU1js4wE2WuX+I2fUZ72r40//+Fs4Mc/aWLgvTtJ9kiE Gix3wDrCrGxQe/2LZNSleOCarEcu+PWYLeh1CEIsPAPgHiWYnJY9Ecv64bIW6a0cV7b4 bELA==
X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E353DeWlQiFEs2pfCWnOlfaXo5TxjZU1hOxXmZKzj/t5mF4mw7G 1x1DU0mMg1JIzVZwCJR6Zxw=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpfUoCIcT+WSRuY6TxPi8YOG+Vzz7HD0ntiwHM8RRCy1RaJaM5Lj5NwPoo9fp09oVL1OCClDOw==
X-Received: by 2002:a1c:be13:: with SMTP id o19-v6mr14868679wmf.1.1531259490341; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 14:51:30 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [172.16.224.219] ([209.97.127.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k14-v6sm15542522wrg.38.2018.07.10.14.51.28 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 10 Jul 2018 14:51:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>
Message-Id: <8B48E5E5-90DC-423F-83C7-9B51A853A1A8@gmail.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7692534F-B70E-4077-9E7C-57C019F6C33D"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="pgp-sha512"
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\))
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 14:51:23 -0700
In-Reply-To: <CAL02cgQQPcoaQqz5XiUYH7DeUvBM617ZjxTVtrEJ68yEwz0pcg@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, rfcplusplus@ietf.org
To: Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>
References: <CAL02cgQbT8s0493SdbM7Gbw2ZiSV1kMHk+6=Z4BdC2Ky664CNg@mail.gmail.com> <d159dd1f-de0b-d6c5-6430-cd5577e266fd@joelhalpern.com> <CAL02cgSoRyRaR+_s3jne=2593f_mtntm-v7Nn=5rDs1_r96pfQ@mail.gmail.com> <639B8766-A030-490D-8431-C3F9F3EAFCB4@gmail.com> <CAL02cgQQPcoaQqz5XiUYH7DeUvBM617ZjxTVtrEJ68yEwz0pcg@mail.gmail.com>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273)
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rfcplusplus/2I8tZRlvv2ks6GUkYHFf60dKxLw>
Subject: Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us
X-BeenThere: rfcplusplus@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27
Precedence: list
List-Id: For discussion of the RFC++ BoF proposal and related ideas <rfcplusplus.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rfcplusplus>, <mailto:rfcplusplus-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rfcplusplus/>
List-Post: <mailto:rfcplusplus@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rfcplusplus-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rfcplusplus>, <mailto:rfcplusplus-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 21:51:36 -0000

> On Jul 10, 2018, at 1:56 PM, Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 4:11 PM Bob Hinden <bob.hinden@gmail.com <mailto:bob.hinden@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Richard,
> 
>> On Jul 10, 2018, at 7:21 AM, Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx <mailto:rlb@ipv.sx>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 6:32 PM Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com <mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com>> wrote:
>> This formulation assumes that change does not have a cost.  It does.  I
>> agree that not changing has some cost.  However, absent indication that
>> the changes will actually address the claimed problem...
>> 
>> People are presenting indications.  Attach what caveats you need to my little study; it's still real data from a relevant population.  Do you have better data?
> 
> 
> When I saw the survey, after I filled it in, I noticed that I could do it again. There didn’t appear to be a mechanism to keep anyone from taking it multiple times.   Based on this, I don’t think one can draw any conclusions.
> 
> Do you ever use telemetry from fielded products?  How do you know your competitors aren't feeding you bad data?

You point is?  That your flawed survey is OK because there are other flawed surveys?

Bob

v2.37.1 | Report a Bug | By Email | System Status