Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us
Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> Tue, 10 July 2018 15:01 UTC
Return-Path: <lear@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: rfcplusplus@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rfcplusplus@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B13E130FD6 for <rfcplusplus@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 08:01:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -14.51
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M34tS6qEBIMA for <rfcplusplus@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 08:01:19 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D642130FCF for <rfcplusplus@ietf.org>; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 08:01:19 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3985; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1531234879; x=1532444479; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=ThzKmG+lB/IF6ljV5IBM3SBRhuSfI1z2AWxvlT7lz9c=; b=hfVVs3ry0fKQxwJ/evMrSlDxjKr+eiLAEMmuVoHD7C/jXjRsYo5KUBCp FvDW4tjZbo7Ct/cTfwm5dwb+smyFmYeIS6tkbfab3AZbS5PEujc/QRu5k xcfN89uLdo02EUMw40R+WM7gsEbvqqaOC5yiMOYkgWwmC6+/Pn36TcG84 8=;
X-Files: signature.asc : 488
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0B4AQCYyURb/xbLJq1cGQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQcBAQEBAYUZEoQiiGONNiuQJIcICAOEbAKCSzgUAQIBAQIBAQJtKIU3AQUjVhALBAETKgICVwYBDAgBAYMcAYF/qnyBLh+ILoEtD4sPgTeCaod8glUCmVIJg12BWIlrBoFDhA+CRoVIkhKBWCGBUjMaCBsVgyWQVD2OGwEB
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,335,1526342400"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="5085852"
Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 10 Jul 2018 15:01:17 +0000
Received: from [10.61.195.132] ([10.61.195.132]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w6AF1GFf006002; Tue, 10 Jul 2018 15:01:16 GMT
To: Eliot Lear <lear=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Richard Barnes <rlb@ipv.sx>, Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, rfcplusplus@ietf.org
References: <CAL02cgQbT8s0493SdbM7Gbw2ZiSV1kMHk+6=Z4BdC2Ky664CNg@mail.gmail.com> <d159dd1f-de0b-d6c5-6430-cd5577e266fd@joelhalpern.com> <dc8c30ee-8233-e5cc-3afd-4734c1af8b0b@gmail.com> <CAL02cgT5BtFnMHzxpAx7pV=AiRyzMQV3aON65kAPRnV9kFOgeg@mail.gmail.com> <888d8f56-1ae8-4812-c8b2-a0d99ce6edfa@cisco.com>
From: Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com>
Openpgp: preference=signencrypt
Autocrypt: addr=lear@cisco.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsBNBFMe1UQBCADdYOS5APDpIpF2ohAxB+nxg1GpAYr8iKwGIb86Wp9NkK5+QwbW9H035clT lpVLciExtN8E3MCTPOIm7aITPlruixAVwlBY3g7U9eRppSw9O2H/7bie2GOnYxqmsw4v1yNZ 9NcMLlD8raY0UcQ5r698c8JD4xUTLqybZXaK2sPeJkxzT+IwupRSQ+vXEvFFGhERQ88zo5Ca Sa1Gw/Rv54oH0Dq2XYkO41rhxQ60BKZLZuQK1d9+1y3I+An3AJeD3AA31fJZD3H8YRKOBgqe ILPILbw1mM7gCtCjfvFCt6AFCwEsjITGx55ceoQ+t5B5XGYJEppMWsIFrwZsfbL+gP31ABEB AAHNJUVsaW90IExlYXIgPGxlYXJAb2Zjb3Vyc2VpbXJpZ2h0LmNvbT7CwJEEEwECADsCGwMC HgECF4ACGQEWIQSY0L2QRh2wkqeyYR2HtmtG2dJ6MwUCWxJwMwULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgID AQAKCRCHtmtG2dJ6MyMyCACXvtFjAYGMtOkD9MD4nI3ifFpkrj8xTMbXjrv5hdqmzRmQ0wqA 1U/OlZux+P/NaVMiZNZc8zw0nsx/INAqDOVd4/tLWF+ywTkeRFR0VnaUxLwCReZAZOaRS+md +52u/6ddoFja2RnjZ43qbbuvVUARQVIyMJz+GbR6mEZQHR0psD7dDYZDyrpivCxm8zHQwmB6 AZUlO7OJgljDvVPVDCabg/ZnJw1qS0OzSiNb0MySk1D5A7FdwDgeKxuMYUOOoVVTTMWNWcME UkRX9LxElswEt0PQWiz/j3FYXTxiFfl/1vKcHx4pM+E5C5mhTbrdFUFLJC3Y5fLID7stK/Ch aEaBzsBNBFMe1UQBCAC0WV7Ydbv95xYGPhthTdChBIpPtl7JPCV/c6/3iEmvjpfGuFNaK4Ma cj9le20EA5A1BH7PgLGoHOiPM65NysRpZ96RRVX3TNfLmhGMFr5hPOGNdq+xcGHVutmwPV9U 7bKeUNRiPFx3YdEkExddqV2E8FltT0x2FSKe2xszPPHB6gVtMckX5buI9p1K3fbVhXdvEkcY Y/jB0JEJGyhS5aEbct5cHUvDAkT81/YFK5Jfg8RRwu1q1t1YuIJSOWAZQ9J9oUsg6D9RpClU +tIFBoe3iTp1AUfJcypucGKgLYKtpu/aygcpQONHYkYW5003mPsrajFhReVF5veycMbHs4u5 ABEBAAHCwF8EGAECAAkFAlMe1UQCGwwACgkQh7ZrRtnSejOSuQgA27p2rYB7Kh20dym6V8c6 2pWpBHHTgxr/32zevxHSiXl6xvUCg5T8WUwfUk8OvgDcBErK/blDAMXQzSg3sp450JhR8RnX HXF5Zz2T04X7HnlIVJGwf2CjnwyEAJCqMzaCmI+g3Imvg/8L4nyBFvhlFHDv+kIvMiujyycj PAu7xxKplBs1/IEwmDoAMjneFmawvfeQnwdMhSKK8PjKSuzGU5uUmxj3GBfRqvTM0qpmhMPF OmDhJSmH55HLAky2MlmqJYXJPt/9EfSEhFiua1M6gLiuNEuPkp+8jcnHQqKr0IeHt8UqcwLt 2mGfIyl0FVdF9hvWPjNRzGbgqoT1Di03RQ==
Message-ID: <814a552b-3f2a-798e-420b-9ffa237826ea@cisco.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 17:01:13 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <888d8f56-1ae8-4812-c8b2-a0d99ce6edfa@cisco.com>
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="RgWvxVhLjNWb0CIs29pvazCyD5DBnGnGl"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rfcplusplus/JAhhHcb_CTStJNsNGF9cfxsLhcM>
Subject: Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us
X-BeenThere: rfcplusplus@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27
Precedence: list
List-Id: For discussion of the RFC++ BoF proposal and related ideas <rfcplusplus.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rfcplusplus>, <mailto:rfcplusplus-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rfcplusplus/>
List-Post: <mailto:rfcplusplus@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rfcplusplus-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rfcplusplus>, <mailto:rfcplusplus-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 15:01:22 -0000
Erm... On 10.07.18 16:59, Eliot Lear wrote: > > On 10.07.18 16:34, Richard Barnes wrote: > > I have no doubt that we could do better, but so far, nobody's done > the work. > > > That seems like a far better place to start in all of this. In fact, > it would be quite good if this group could even agree on what goo > looks like. That will also help clarify what measurements are important. s/goo/good/ Please send no textual descriptions of goo. Eliot
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Richard Barnes
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Paul Hoffman
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Eliot Lear
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Eliot Lear
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Andrew Sullivan
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Richard Barnes
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Joel M. Halpern
- [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Richard Barnes
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Adrian Farrel
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us John C Klensin
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Andrew G. Malis
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Eric C Rosen
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us John C Klensin
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Bob Hinden
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Richard Barnes
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Bob Hinden
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Richard Barnes
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Alissa Cooper
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us S Moonesamy
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Joseph Lorenzo Hall
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us John C Klensin
- Re: [Rfcplusplus] Sunk cost + not about us Alissa Cooper