[rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT
Brian E Carpenter <brc@zurich.ibm.com> Thu, 14 July 2005 18:40 UTC
Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dt8dg-0005t5-8f; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 14:40:52 -0400
Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dt8df-0005t0-0M for rgchairs@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 14:40:51 -0400
Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA07910 for <rgchairs@irtf.org>; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 14:40:49 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from mtagate2.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.135]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Dt96H-00064E-NC for rgchairs@irtf.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:10:28 -0400
Received: from d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.38.185]) by mtagate2.uk.ibm.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j6EIeYSk356982 for <rgchairs@irtf.org>; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 18:40:34 GMT
Received: from d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.149.37.216]) by d06nrmr1407.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.10/NCO/VER6.6) with ESMTP id j6EIeYKN225892 for <rgchairs@irtf.org>; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 19:40:34 +0100
Received: from d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j6EIeYJJ014052 for <rgchairs@irtf.org>; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 19:40:34 +0100
Received: from sihl.zurich.ibm.com (sihl.zurich.ibm.com [9.4.16.232]) by d06av04.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j6EIeXaE014049; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 19:40:33 +0100
Received: from zurich.ibm.com (sig-9-146-220-52.de.ibm.com [9.146.220.52]) by sihl.zurich.ibm.com (AIX4.3/8.9.3p2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA60160; Thu, 14 Jul 2005 20:40:32 +0200
Message-ID: <42D6B19E.3090201@zurich.ibm.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 20:40:30 +0200
From: Brian E Carpenter <brc@zurich.ibm.com>
Organization: IBM
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113
X-Accept-Language: en, fr, de
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Andrew Newton <andy@hxr.us>
References: <1AA39B75171A7144A73216AED1D7478D6CE8FE@esebe100.NOE.Nokia.com> <E4A1E5F3-EDB0-4CD2-B752-54C92B582E9E@hxr.us> <42D6173A.5030801@zurich.ibm.com> <5F4DCCAB-ACF6-4267-9CA8-B59F2C88E408@hxr.us>
In-Reply-To: <5F4DCCAB-ACF6-4267-9CA8-B59F2C88E408@hxr.us>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Scan-Signature: b7b9551d71acde901886cc48bfc088a6
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cc: wgchairs@ietf.org, rgchairs@irtf.org, bofchairs@ietf.org
Subject: [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT
X-BeenThere: rgchairs@lists.ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: IRTF research group chairs list <rgchairs.lists.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rgchairs>, <mailto:rgchairs-request@lists.ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www1.ietf.org/pipermail/rgchairs>
List-Post: <mailto:rgchairs@lists.ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rgchairs-request@lists.ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rgchairs>, <mailto:rgchairs-request@lists.ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: rgchairs-bounces@lists.ietf.org
Errors-To: rgchairs-bounces@lists.ietf.org
Andrew Newton wrote: > > On Jul 14, 2005, at 3:41 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > >>> The simple fact of the matter is that many people have limited time >>> and limited budget. And some people have little choice regarding >>> airline schedules, either they take the 11:00am flight on Friday or >>> they wait an entire extra day for the 11:00am flight on Saturday. >>> And when meetings are held in places like Paris, some people are >>> under considerable pressure not to give the appearance of a >>> boondoggle. >>> >> >> For those of us who routinely work 6 full days at the IETF (inlcuding >> all day Sunday and all day Friday) the notion that it could be >> viewed as a boondoggle is, well, bizarre. > > > I'm sure it is. But it isn't your perception that is at issue here. I have to get my travel approved too, you know, and I often have to help colleagues get their travel approved. And including Friday is much more a matter of personal (in)convenience than a question of an extra day's per diem. > >>> There are a host of real world issues many participants must >>> grapple with, and telling them that they should be more devoted to >>> the IETF is not helpful. >>> >> >> This is true. But with 120 WGs, plus BOFs and research groups, competing >> for slots, we objectively need the full week. >> >>> As for scheduling, I'd rather see the extra plenary session >>> abandoned and have that time dedicated for more working group and >>> bof slots. >>> >> >> We've tried that. It doesn't work. We really need the time to discuss >> both operational and technical issues with the community as a whole. > > > If we truly need the whole week, then Friday's should be scheduled with > sessions all day. For people who are in their own country or region, that probably would prevent them getting home Friday night. For people who have to cross the ocean, it would be fine, I agree. > > On Jul 14, 2005, at 10:40 AM, Thomas Heide clausen wrote: > >> Seeing as about 90% of the important IETF-meeting-work is hallway and >> bar discussions... > > > If this is true, then this is another reason why the extra plenary > should be scuttled. It would give people more collaborative working time. That leads me to a reductio ad absurdum argument that we should also abolish WG meetings. > > On Jul 13, 2005, at 11:36 PM, john.loughney@nokia.com wrote: > >> IETF meetings are not mandatory for people to attend; if attending >> meetings >> are problematic or subject to intense scrutiny by someone's travel >> department, >> then they can just particpate on the mailing list. There are plenty >> of people >> who do this already. > > > Here's what seem people think about IETF meetings (read item #1): > http://www.imc.org/ietf-mxcomp/mail-archive/msg05193.html Arguing from the MARID experience or against an Experimental RFC doesn't make your case, IMHO. Brian _______________________________________________ Rgchairs mailing list Rgchairs@lists.ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rgchairs
- [rgchairs] 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT IETF Secretariat
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Thierry Ernst
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Brian E Carpenter
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Thierry Ernst
- [rgchairs] RE: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT john.loughney
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Jeffrey Hutzelman
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Brian E Carpenter
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Brian E Carpenter
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Lars Eggert
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Thierry Ernst
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Chan-Wah Ng
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Steven M. Bellovin
- [rgchairs] RE: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT David B Harrington
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Andrew Newton
- Re: [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Andrew Newton
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Andrew Newton
- [rgchairs] IETF responsabilities in "Friday atten… Thierry Ernst
- [rgchairs] RE: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT john.loughney
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Steven M. Bellovin
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Rohan Mahy
- Re: [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Jari Arkko
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Andrew Newton
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Rohan Mahy
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Brian E Carpenter
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Andrew Newton
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Hisham Khartabil
- Re: [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Thomas Heide clausen
- [rgchairs] RE: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Susan Hares
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT David Meyer
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT David Meyer
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Richard Shockey
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Hisham Khartabil
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Tom Taylor
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Richard Shockey
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT David Meyer
- [rgchairs] Re: IETF responsabilities in "Friday a… James Kempf
- [rgchairs] Change in NETLMM James Kempf
- [rgchairs] RE: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Eric Burger
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Pete Resnick
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Brian E Carpenter
- [rgchairs] RE: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT Eric Burger
- [rgchairs] Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - DRAFT - VoIP Pe… Cullen Jennings
- [rgchairs] Long BoFs (was Re: 63rd IETF Agenda - … Rohan Mahy
- [rgchairs] Re: Long BoFs (was Re: 63rd IETF Agend… Brian E Carpenter