Re: [Rift] RIFT fingerprint coverage
Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com> Mon, 22 July 2019 14:11 UTC
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From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 10:10:38 -0400
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To: Bruno Rijsman <brunorijsman@gmail.com>
Cc: Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net>, "rift@ietf.org" <rift@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Rift] RIFT fingerprint coverage
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I think we misunderstood. If you validate things _before_ a fingerprint (which we have here, without lenght in front of fingerprint we don't know where to find it) you normally compute the fingerprint over empty fingerprint & you have to validate the same way. This is normally the place where problems occur due to unusal logic necessary in the right sequence I agree, the discussion is is there an attack worth doing the extra work, I don't see one + as I say we not really protect anything since we access the fields before fingerprint anyway and any change, if not failing before fingerprint will make fingerprint invalid anyway ... --- tony On Sun, Jul 21, 2019 at 12:04 PM Bruno Rijsman <brunorijsman@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Jul 21, 2019, at 4:22 PM, Antoni Przygienda <prz@juniper.net> wrote: > > > > 3. second, even if we do I don't think we improve the attack envelope or > actually worsen it. Let's go through it > > 1. major version is attacked, any change will drop the packet due to > mismatch. if we protect it, we calculate the hash and it fails and outcome > is the same modulo we can be computationally overrun > 2. outer key id is attacked/fingerprint length is attacked, all > same outcome ... > > now, you can argue that an attacker can modify stuff _behind_ the > fingerprint and with that attack protocol computationally but there is no > way around that, we won't detect modification otherwise wheeras modifying > major version/key id/fingerprint lenght basically leads to drops on any > change and protecting them only exposes us computationally for no benefit > > > The receiving RIFT router can drop packets with the wrong major version, > with a wrong key-id (not in the accept key set), or a wrong > fingerprint-length, *without* validating the fingerprint first. > > This is for the same reason that a RIFT router can drop a packet with an > out-of-range weak-nonce *without* validating the fingerprint first. > > In general, it is safe to reject a packet when any field has some > unacceptable value *without* validating the fingerprint first. > > So, protecting these additional fields does not open up any new CPU denial > of service attacks. > > If a RIFT router is planning to accept a packet because all fields have an > acceptable value, then it must validate the fingerprint first before doing > so. > > Or if a RIFT router is going to reject a packet but take some protocol > action based on some field in that rejected packet anyway, then it would > have to validate the fingerprint as well (happily, which currently don’t > have this scenario in RIFT, as long as the packet-nr is truly only used for > debugging and not for flow-control, for example). > > So, the real question is: how sure are you that leaving the major-version, > key-id, and fingerprint-lengths fields unprotected will not lead to some > problems down the road? (To quote Dirty Harry: “Do you feel lucky? Well, > do ya, punk? :-) > > — Bruno > >
- [Rift] RIFT fingerprint coverage Bruno Rijsman
- Re: [Rift] RIFT fingerprint coverage Bruno Rijsman
- Re: [Rift] RIFT fingerprint coverage Antoni Przygienda
- Re: [Rift] RIFT fingerprint coverage Bruno Rijsman
- Re: [Rift] RIFT fingerprint coverage Bruno Rijsman
- Re: [Rift] RIFT fingerprint coverage Bruno Rijsman
- Re: [Rift] RIFT fingerprint coverage Antoni Przygienda
- Re: [Rift] RIFT fingerprint coverage Tony Przygienda