Re: [Rift] AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 (Part 1)
"Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com> Fri, 02 April 2021 16:37 UTC
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-rift-rift@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-rift-rift@ietf.org>
CC: "zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn" <zhang.zheng@zte.com.cn>, "rift-chairs@ietf.org" <rift-chairs@ietf.org>, "rift@ietf.org" <rift@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 (Part 1)
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rift/UWYoYH3LMwR8Ux62YvnWsujWAmg>
Subject: Re: [Rift] AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 (Part 1)
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Hello Alvaro: As part of the weekly RIFT meet&progress; I'm looking at the nits in 4.1.2 to 4.1.4: > > 705 To account for the "northern" and the "southern" information split > 706 the link state database is partitioned accordingly into "north > 707 representation" and "south representation" TIEs. In simplest terms > 708 the North TIEs contain a link state topology description of lower > 709 levels and and South TIEs carry simply default routes towards the > 710 level above. This oversimplified view will be refined gradually in > 711 following sections while introducing protocol procedures and state > 712 machines at the same time. > > [nit] s/in following/in the following Done > > > 714 4.1.2. Generalized Topology View > > 716 This section will shed some light on the topologies RIFT addresses, > 717 including multi plane fabrics and their implications. Readers that > 718 are only interested in single plane designs, i.e. all top-of-fabric > 719 nodes being topologically equal and initially connected to all the > 720 switches at the level below them, can skip the rest of Section 4.1.2 > 721 and resulting Section 4.2.5.2 as well. > > [minor] "Readers...can skip the rest of Section 4.1.2 and resulting Section > 4.2.5.2 as well." I can see how a reader can skip a part of the overview, but > §4.2* is where the specification is. Are you saying that §4.2.5.2 doesn't have to > be implemented/supported in some cases? > Are there other sections that are also not needed in some cases? Does this > result in the ability to implement subsets of RIFT to support specific > topologies? Where is that discussed? As you know there's more is in the applicability draft, and we probably do not want to diverge too much in this spec. To address both points above I suggest we change to " [I-D.ietf-rift-applicability] discusses various topologies upon which RIFT may be deployed and use cases where it can apply. This section and resulting section 3.2.5.2 are dedicated to multi-plane fabrics, in contrast with the single plane designs where all top-of-fabric nodes are topologically equal and initially connected to all the switches at the level below them. " > > ... > 737 4.1.2.1. Terminology > ... > 746 K: Denotes the number of ports in radix of a switch pointing north or > 747 south. Further, K_LEAF denotes number of ports pointing south, > 748 i.e. towards leaves, and K_TOP for number of ports pointing north > 749 towards a higher spine level. To simplify the visual aids, > 750 notations and further considerations, K will be mostly set to > 751 Radix/2. > > [minor] Radix is defined in §3.1 as the number of ports. s/Denotes the number > of ports in radix of a switch/Denotes the radix of a switch > Done > > ... > 757 N: Denote the number of independent ToF planes in a topology. > > [nit] s/Denote/Denotes > Done > > ... > 766 4.1.2.2. Clos as Crossed Crossbars > > 768 The typical topology for which RIFT is defined is built of P number > 769 of PoDs and connected together by S number of ToF nodes. A PoD > node > 770 has K number of ports (also called Radix). We consider half of them > 771 (K=Radix/2) as connecting host devices from the south, and the other > 772 half connecting to interleaved PoD Top-Level switches to the north. > 773 Ratio K can be chosen differently without loss of generality when > 774 port speeds differ or the fabric is oversubscribed but K=R/2 allows > 775 for more readable representation whereby there are as many ports > 776 facing north as south on any intermediate node. We represent a > node > 777 hence in a schematic fashion with ports "sticking out" to its north > 778 and south rather than by the usual real-world front faceplate designs > 779 of the day. > > [nit] s/Ratio K can be chosen differently/The K ratio can be chosen differently > OK > > [minor] "K=R/2" R is defined in §4.1.2.1 as the redundancy, not the radix. Yes that created confusion. Changed to K=Radix/2 > > > 781 Figure 4 provides a view of a leaf node as seen from the north, i.e. > 782 showing ports that connect northbound. For lack of a better symbol, > 783 we have chosen to use the "o" as ASCII visualisation of a single > 784 port. In this example, K_LEAF has 6 ports. Observe that the number > 785 of PoDs is not related to Radix unless the ToF Nodes are constrained > 786 to be the same as the PoD nodes in a particular deployment. > > [minor] "showing ports that connect northbound...K_LEAF has 6 ports" > The ports that connect north are K_TOP. K is a number. The Radix discussion is about have all the ports the same speed, half of them north. From the perspective of a leaf that is K_LEAF ports north. For the ToP that is K_TOP ports south. Everything wires if K_TOP * nbToP = K_LEAF * nbLeaf > > > 788 Top view > 789 +---+ > 790 | | > 791 | o | e.g., Radix = 12, K_LEAF = 6 > 792 | | > 793 | o | > 794 | | ------------------------- > 795 | o ------- Physical Port (Ethernet) ----+ > 796 | | ------------------------- | > 797 | o | | > 798 | | | > 799 | o | | > 800 | | | > 801 | o | | > 802 | | | > 803 +---+ | > > 805 || || || || || || || > 806 +----+ +------------------------------------------------+ > 807 | | | | > 808 +----+ +------------------------------------------------+ > 809 || || || || || || || > 810 Side views > > 812 Figure 4: A Leaf Node, K_LEAF=6 > > 814 The Radix of a PoD's top node may be different than that of the leaf > 815 node. Though, more often than not, a same type of node is used for > 816 both, effectively forming a square (K*K). In general case, we could > 817 have switches with K_TOP southern ports on nodes at the top of the > 818 PoD which are not necessarily the same as K_LEAF. For instance, in > 819 the representations below, we pick a 6 port K_LEAF and a 8 port > 820 K_TOP. In order to form a crossbar, we need K_TOP Leaf Nodes as > 821 illustrated in Figure 5. > > [nit] s/In general case/In the general case > Done > > [minor] "K_TOP southern ports" Aren't K_TOP the ports pointing north? No they K_TOP is ToP's Radix divided by to, that's the number of ports the ToP has going south and north > The description is confusing because the terminology from the last section is > not used in the same way -- the description mixes the terminology with the > number represented. For example, "K_TOP Leaf Nodes" doesn't make sense if > the terminology is strictly applied, where K_TOP is the "number of ports > pointing north". Also (if I understood Figure 4 correctly), each node below has > 6 K_TOP ports -- presumably the node at the top has 8 K_LEAF ports. > > > 823 +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ > 824 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | > 825 | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | > 826 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | > 827 | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | > 828 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | > 829 | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | > 830 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | > 831 | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | > 832 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | > 833 | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | > 834 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | > 835 | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | | o | > 836 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | > 837 +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ > > 839 Figure 5: Southern View of a PoD, K_TOP=8 > > 841 As further visualized in Figure 6 the K_TOP Leaf Nodes are fully > 842 interconnected with the K_LEAF PoD-top nodes, providing > connectivity > 843 that can be represented as a crossbar when "looked at" from the > 844 north. The result is that, in the absence of a failure, a packet > 845 entering the PoD from the north on any port can be routed to any > port > 846 in the south of the PoD and vice versa. And that is precisely why it > 847 makes sense to talk about a "switching matrix". > > [minor] "K_TOP Leaf Nodes are fully interconnected with the K_LEAF PoD-top > nodes" Same comment about the terminology... I only see one "PoD top > Node" with one connection to a switch, not a full interconnect. I replaced the legacy terminology PoD-top to ToP (Top of PoD). In Fig 5 you look from southn that's the perspective of the servers in the PoD. The see the access ports in the the ToR == Leaf. The are K-ToP leaf switches that's 8 in this example, each switch as 6 access ports (Radix/2) since half of the ports look north and half look south > > > [minor] The figure also doesn't show the connection between the switches (if > any)...and I'm not sure what the "connectors" (?) on the switch at the > top/bottom are (there seem to be more of them than ports). There is no connection between the ToRs. On the southern side that's just a bunch of ports. They will be interconnected on the northern side by the ToPs and that's fig 6 below: > > > 849 E<-*->W > > 851 +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ > 852 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | > 853 +--------------------------------------------------------+ > 854 | o o o o o o o o | > 855 +--------------------------------------------------------+ > 856 +--------------------------------------------------------+ > 857 | o o o o o o o o | > 858 +--------------------------------------------------------+ > 859 +--------------------------------------------------------+ > 860 | o o o o o o o o | > 861 +--------------------------------------------------------+ > 862 +--------------------------------------------------------+ > 863 | o o o o o o o o | > 864 +--------------------------------------------------------+ > 865 +--------------------------------------------------------+ > 866 | o o o o o o o o |<-+ > 867 +--------------------------------------------------------+ | > 868 +--------------------------------------------------------+ | > 869 | o o o o o o o o | | > 870 +--------------------------------------------------------+ | > 871 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | > 872 +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ +---+ | > 873 ^ | > 874 | | > 875 | ---------- --------------------- | > 876 +----- Leaf Node PoD top Node (Spine) --+ > 877 ---------- --------------------- > > 879 Figure 6: Northern View of a PoD's Spines, K_TOP=8 > > 881 Side views of this PoD is illustrated in Figure 7 and Figure 8. > > 883 Connecting to Spine > > 885 || || || || || || || || > 886 +----------------------------------------------------------------+ N > 887 | PoD top Node seen sideways | ^ > 888 +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | > 889 || || || || || || || || * > 890 +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ | > 891 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | v > 892 +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ S > 893 || || || || || || || || > > 895 Connecting to Client nodes > > 897 Figure 7: Side View of a PoD, K_TOP=8, K_LEAF=6 > > [minor] I count 8 connections to the south in the top node...and just one on the > switches below it. A leaf switch is represented as a vertical bar, 8 of them. A ToP is represented as a horizontal, 6 of them. The o in the cross-bar representation symbolizes the ethernet cable that connects them. > > > 899 Connecting to Spine > > 901 || || || || || || > 902 +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ N > 903 | | | | | | | | | | | PoD top Nodes ^ > 904 +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ +----+ | > 905 || || || || || || * > 906 +------------------------------------------------+ | > 907 | Leaf seen sideways | v > 908 +------------------------------------------------+ S > 909 || || || || || || > > 911 Connecting to Client nodes > > [minor] A leaf doesn't have southbound ports/adjacencies. What is this leaf > connected to? > > > 913 Figure 8: Other Side View of a PoD, K_TOP=8, K_LEAF=6, 90o turn in > 914 E-W Plane > > [minor] In this case I count a leaf with 6 northbound interfaces. > > > [minor] "90o turn in E-W Plane" I don't know what that is. > > > 916 As next step, let us observe that a resulting PoD can be abstracted > 917 as a bigger node with a number K of K_POD= K_TOP * K_LEAF, and > the > 918 design can recurse. > > [minor] K is already defined as the number of ports (§4.1.2.1). > > > [minor] Lost again. If the PoD is abstracted as a single node, then it would have > K_TOP + K_LEAF nodes, not sure where the "*" comes from or what is trying to > denote. > > > 920 It will be critical at this point that, before progressing further, > 921 the concept and the picture of "crossed crossbars" is clear. Else, > 922 the following considerations might be difficult to comprehend. > > [] The concept is clear to me -- I don't find the explanation and the > corresponding pictures specially helpful. > > > ... > 929 This topology is also referred to as a single plane configuration and > 930 is quite popular due to its simplicity. In order to reach a 1:1 > 931 connectivity ratio between the ToF and the leaves, it results that > 932 there are K_TOP ToF nodes, because each port of a ToP node > connects > 933 to a different ToF node, and K_LEAF ToP nodes for the same reason. > 934 Consequently, it will take (P * K_LEAF) ports on a ToF node to > 935 connect to each of the K_LEAF ToP nodes of the P PoDs, as shown in > 936 Figure 9. > > [minor] "there are K_TOP ToF nodes...and K_LEAF ToP nodes" As with other > places, the terminology is not used as defined earlier. K_* refer to the number > of ports in a specific switch, so their use is relative to that switch. In this case > each ToP has K_TOP links, and each ToF has K_LEAF links. The use without the > reference point is confusing. > > > [minor] "(P * K_LEAF)" This calculation is clear once one realizes that the > previous discussion was for the number of ports per PoD, not total (as the > definition of K_* suggests). > > > > 938 [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] <-----+ > 939 | | | | | | | | | > 940 [=================================] | ----------- > 941 | | | | | | | | +----- Top-of-Fabric > 942 [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] [ ] +----- Node -------+ > 943 | ----------- | > 944 | v > 945 +-+ +-+ +-+ +-+ +-+ +-+ +-+ +-+ <-----+ +-+ > 946 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | > 947 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| ] | | > 948 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| ] ------------------------- | | > 949 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o<--- Physical Port (Ethernet) | | > 950 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| ] ------------------------- | | > 951 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| ] | | > 952 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| ] | | > 953 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | > 954 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| ] | | > 955 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| ] -------------- | | > 956 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| ] <--- PoD top level | | > 957 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| ] node (Spine) ---+ | | > 958 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| ] -------------- | | | > 959 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| ] | | | > 960 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | -+ +- +-+ v | | > 961 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| ] | | --| |--[ ]--| | > 962 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| ] | ----- | --| |--[ ]--| | > 963 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| ] +--- PoD ---+ --| |--[ ]--| | > 964 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| ] | ----- | --| |--[ ]--| | > 965 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| ] | | --| |--[ ]--| | > 966 [ |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| |o| ] | | --| |--[ ]--| | > 967 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | -+ +- +-+ | | > 968 +-+ +-+ +-+ +-+ +-+ +-+ +-+ +-+ +-+ > > 970 Figure 9: Fabric Spines and TOFs in Single Plane Design, 3 PoDs > > [minor] I believe you when you say that this figure shows how "it will take (P * > K_LEAF) ports on a ToF node to connect to each of the K_LEAF ToP nodes of the > P PoDs", but the drawing is not straight forward to interpret. Among other > reasons because there seem to be 3 different connection > types/interpretations/? to the ToF -- a different one for each PoD. Each pod is a crossbar as before, like a pizza. 3 of net next to one another in a line. Then on top of the 3 pizzas you place long bars parallel to the leaves that span the 3 pizzas to interconnect them. These are the ToF. The view above is top (the large image on bottom left and 2 sides, rotated 90 degrees. It takes a little bit to see it but you get used. To clarify I added " Figure 9 illustrates this, looking at P=3 PoDs from above and the 2 sides. The large view is the one from above, with the 8 ToF of 3*6 ports each interconnecting the PoDs, every ToP Node being connected to every ToF node. " > > > 972 The top view can be collapsed into a third dimension where the > hidden > 973 depth index is representing the PoD number. We can then show one > PoD > 974 as a class of PoDs and hence save one dimension in our > 975 representation. The Spine Node expands in the depth and the vertical > 976 dimensions, whereas the PoD top level Nodes are constrained, in > 977 horizontal dimension. A port in the 2-D representation represents > 978 effectively the class of all the ports at the same position in all > 979 the PoDs that are projected in its position along the depth axis. > 980 This is shown in Figure 10. > > [] Do we really need this extra representation? Yes because that helps the reader to make the required additional step to project all Pods as one and work at the class level. IOW, one pod now is the class of all PoDs, it represents them all, all PoDs stacked and seen from above as one. After that drawings can simplify a lot because we omit the PoD dimension and can draw in a 2-D ASCII world. > > ... > 1003 As simple as single plane deployment is it introduces a limit due to > 1004 the bound on the available radix of the ToF nodes that has to be at > 1005 least P * K_LEAF. Nevertheless, we will see that a distinct > 1006 advantage of a connected or non-partitioned Top-of-Fabric is that all > 1007 failures can be resolved by simple, non-transitive, positive > 1008 disaggregation (i.e. nodes advertising more specific prefixes with > 1009 the default to the level below them that is however not propagated > 1010 further down the fabric) as described in Section 4.2.5.1 . In other > 1011 words; non-partitioned ToF nodes can always reach nodes below or > 1012 withdraw the routes from PoDs they cannot reach > unambiguously. And > 1013 with this, positive disaggregation can heal all failures and still > 1014 allow all the ToF nodes to see each other via south reflection Sorry this appears to be cut here ? Pascal
- [Rift] AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 (Part… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Rift] AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 (… Antoni Przygienda
- Re: [Rift] AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 (… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Rift] AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 (… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Rift] AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 (… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Rift] AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 (… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Rift] AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 (… Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Rift] AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 (… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- [Rift] Fwd: AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 … Tony Przygienda
- Re: [Rift] Fwd: AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Rift] AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 (… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Rift] AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 (… Jordan Head
- Re: [Rift] AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 (… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Rift] AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 (… Jordan Head
- Re: [Rift] AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 (… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Rift] AD Review of draft-ietf-rift-rift-12 (… Jordan Head