Re: [rmcat] Still looking for reviews of draft-ietf-rmcat-nada

Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com> Tue, 04 July 2017 11:50 UTC

Return-Path: <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5E34131FC3; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 04:50:53 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.21
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RmT-oe5X_j1P; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 04:50:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 32835131FBD; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 04:50:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-703ff70000001664-5a-595b81142080
Received: from ESESSHC010.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.48]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 95.AE.05732.4118B595; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 13:50:44 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from EUR03-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (153.88.183.145) by oa.msg.ericsson.com (153.88.183.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.352.0; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 13:50:43 +0200
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-ericsson-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=uiHs80yhFlYfBPPdMlN5oQX/DoFScvw4uc9/ZVyWrBs=; b=bxIVhsc36dfhgN+9cWn8nYLfmSL6pflMmkEg7setn0bR75L0zDGAQlk7x2EEZg2VxJcsO2UDQcJkszgxj+Wne0BpeWn1KCk5q7ApBoi9qRWUO8xkPP05JadT0LGHRPjpQF9yPM+hdiEmzXpiphcRGED2otK+1de13kKX21/3G6U=
Received: from DB4PR07MB348.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.141.234.148) by DB4PR07MB0621.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.141.43.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1240.6; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 11:50:42 +0000
Received: from DB4PR07MB348.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4ce9:7bec:5be9:91b5]) by DB4PR07MB348.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4ce9:7bec:5be9:91b5%18]) with mapi id 15.01.1240.010; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 11:50:43 +0000
From: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>
To: Anna Brunstrom <anna.brunstrom@kau.se>, "rmcat@ietf.org" <rmcat@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-rmcat-nada@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-rmcat-nada@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [rmcat] Still looking for reviews of draft-ietf-rmcat-nada
Thread-Index: AQHS8dNhy65fQ5vDK0m2BUYcYMBYhKJDji0g
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2017 11:50:42 +0000
Message-ID: <DB4PR07MB348F7D8702DC16028081554C2D70@DB4PR07MB348.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <7c5453a5-65f6-6f74-6214-346469c8abce@kau.se> <c8d9ec64-c332-fa8d-dd20-3dd307aabb97@kau.se>
In-Reply-To: <c8d9ec64-c332-fa8d-dd20-3dd307aabb97@kau.se>
Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: kau.se; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;kau.se; dmarc=none action=none header.from=ericsson.com;
x-originating-ip: [192.176.1.90]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DB4PR07MB0621; 7: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
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d64ec932-7648-40c7-cd08-08d4c2d2e65f
x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(300000500095)(300135000095)(300000501095)(300135300095)(22001)(300000502095)(300135100095)(2017030254075)(300000503095)(300135400095)(2017052603031)(201703131423075)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(300000504095)(300135200095)(300000505095)(300135600095)(300000506095)(300135500095); SRVR:DB4PR07MB0621;
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB4PR07MB0621:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <DB4PR07MB06212BCD3AA1D14CBDBF09C1C2D70@DB4PR07MB0621.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(151999592597050)(278178393323532)(120809045254105)(26388249023172)(236129657087228)(48057245064654)(21748063052155)(92977632026198)(247924648384137);
x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(6040450)(601004)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(2017060910033)(93006095)(93001095)(3002001)(10201501046)(100000703101)(100105400095)(6041248)(20161123564025)(20161123555025)(20161123560025)(20161123558100)(201703131423075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(20161123562025)(6072148)(100000704101)(100105200095)(100000705101)(100105500095); SRVR:DB4PR07MB0621; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:DB4PR07MB0621;
x-forefront-prvs: 0358535363
x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(39450400003)(39850400002)(39400400002)(39840400002)(39410400002)(39860400002)(24454002)(40764003)(377424004)(8676002)(86362001)(14454004)(74316002)(9326002)(230783001)(5250100002)(7696004)(2501003)(25786009)(102836003)(3846002)(81166006)(2906002)(3280700002)(790700001)(6116002)(53546010)(606006)(2900100001)(478600001)(3660700001)(8936002)(76176999)(38730400002)(2950100002)(189998001)(6506006)(54356999)(33656002)(50986999)(6436002)(7736002)(6246003)(4326008)(66066001)(5660300001)(54896002)(6306002)(53936002)(229853002)(55016002)(99286003)(9686003)(236005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:DB4PR07MB0621; H:DB4PR07MB348.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en;
spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99
spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DB4PR07MB348F7D8702DC16028081554C2D70DB4PR07MB348eurprd_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Jul 2017 11:50:42.7697 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB4PR07MB0621
X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com
X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA02Sa0iTURjHOe/77t2rNTpOxQfNsOGHNLw0BCXMSyBNSLAgUGfo0jcd6pRN zRuklRjecKmEUrrWQLxQYJlmZjjCO7gS8fKhdCYiSBlYm4Xa3h0Dv/2e5/8/z/M/h8PR0hci b06tKeS1GlWujHVl2pIGQ4M8qpTJod2NfhGT9nk6wmLcEEX0Lu+wMbTCZNqjFPuWajaRSnGN zORz1cW8NiQq3TV7tPOxqGAlreR+zRBViepv1iIXDnAYzA7aqFrkyknxRwT2Hj1LigkEq7/M jFAwuIGGezVWmiitFLRONR4Vqwjq9/soYRiLI6HbbEMCe+AE2Pn5SCwwjePggbHNye74Chj2 rCzxKODQPE0RlkPXwXORwAz2h443206PBKdA14DBEYNzLFPDSGWU0HbBF+F777BzJMK+8NX2 hSGrvGDlWydF7obBNDJHE/aErfUDkZAZ4RoEm0YTLcwE7AcN8ynE4wufO+uQ4AG8ykLn7gxL hASYX7MwRLBSsPTKxpLDgdDVJCWeHBiwLx4t/oBgfElL/J9EYDf8OEpxGmYH9DQRFkWwbrEz TSiw/Vhywvkw0TzOtDsfwA2m2r45mHP0A+DlcAixnIWWujUx4XNQ/eSp+HjfgMQ9yFPH627l ZcnlwbxWnaHT5WuCNXxhP3L8orHXf0OH0NZmrBlhDslOSmbuKpOlIlWxrjTPjICjZR6SjgxH S5KpKi3jtflp2qJcXmdGPhwj85LEjlqSpDhLVcjn8HwBr/2vUpyLdyW6fX4hnU4KGlT8vhbw rEPcUjq3vHamb7bUVnYi7H2G/sayTHLV33iw4RF0ZyQ8vd/zenOqJikx9WG5abocj8VcivM2 1b2LTps8VXIotip32Vx5mRvn/ye+49Ca5fW2KjI6wF2v4ExFFYvq+Iri0fDBhOaFaJuPYluu DIiOoC7LGF226kIgrdWp/gFUgGBjQQMAAA==
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rmcat/A7pcHB6qIxG4M7X1Yb9ZrUvb44I>
Subject: Re: [rmcat] Still looking for reviews of draft-ietf-rmcat-nada
X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22
Precedence: list
List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." <rmcat.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rmcat>, <mailto:rmcat-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rmcat/>
List-Post: <mailto:rmcat@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rmcat-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmcat>, <mailto:rmcat-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 11:50:54 -0000

Hi

I have now read through draft-ietf-rmcat-nada-04 . I see that it differs from an earlier version in that there is more pseudo code added, which I believe simplifies the reading.
A few remarks :
Page 8, computation of d_tilde : I mentioned it before and it is also stated in the scream draft. I fear that the non-linear warping can be quite prone to create self-inflicted congestion and I recall that examples of this has been shown, and it was also dicussed  ?. If you agree with this, then it can be good to elaborate a bit around these risks in the draft.

Section 5.1.2 : Estimation of p_mark : I am not convinced that you will get a very meaningful metric here with a “classic” ECN marking behavior. On the one hand there can be e.g. RED based  ECN marking (and PIE) that increases the ECN mark ratio with the amount of ‘overload’, on the other hand there can be AQM algorithms that are more conservative in their ECN  marking behavior. L4S marking is a different story as L4S is here assumed to give a mark probability that scales with the link overload.

Regards
/Ingemar



From: Anna Brunstrom [mailto:anna.brunstrom@kau.se]
Sent: den 30 juni 2017 12:43
To: rmcat@ietf.org
Subject: [rmcat] Still looking for reviews of draft-ietf-rmcat-nada


Dear all,

The WGLC for NADA ended some time ago without any wg feedback. We still need a few reviews in order to progress the document. Note that even if you have no specific comments, but have read the document and find it ready for publication this is useful feedback.

Thanks for your help,
Anna

On 2017-04-05 11:30, Anna Brunstrom wrote:

This email announces a RMCAT Working Group Last Call (WGLC) on:

NADA: A Unified Congestion Control Scheme for Real-Time Media
draft-ietf-rmcat-nada<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmcat-nada/>

Due to Easter, this WGLC will run for 3 weeks, ending at midnight US Eastern Time on Tuesday, April 25.  Comments should preferably be sent to the rmcat@ietf.org<mailto:rmcat@ietf.org> list, although purely editorial comments may be sent directly to the authors at draft-ietf-rmcat-nada.authors@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-rmcat-nada.authors@ietf.org> - if doing so, please cc: the WG chairs at rmcat-chairs@tools.ietf.org<mailto:rmcat-chairs@tools.ietf.org>.

We are looking for at least a couple of reviews during WGLC, so please help review the document.

Thanks,
Anna, Colin & Martin