[rmcat] How we should handle feedback, and where the congestion should run

Randell Jesup <randell-ietf@jesup.org> Fri, 06 November 2015 00:44 UTC

Return-Path: <randell-ietf@jesup.org>
X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 196501A219B for <rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 16:44:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.8
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9dBMiI2WrSBI for <rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 16:44:03 -0800 (PST)
Received: from nov-007-i573.relay.mailchannels.net (nov-007-i573.relay.mailchannels.net [46.232.183.127]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31FEA1A873D for <rmcat@ietf.org>; Thu, 5 Nov 2015 16:43:44 -0800 (PST)
X-Sender-Id: wwwh|x-authuser|randell@jesup.org
Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96E67608B0 for <rmcat@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 00:43:39 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from r2-chicago.webserversystems.com (ip-10-213-14-133.us-west-2.compute.internal [10.213.14.133]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9002260A2F for <rmcat@ietf.org>; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 00:43:38 +0000 (UTC)
X-Sender-Id: wwwh|x-authuser|randell@jesup.org
Received: from r2-chicago.webserversystems.com (r2-chicago.webserversystems.com [10.122.72.91]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.5.5); Fri, 06 Nov 2015 00:43:39 +0000
X-MC-Relay: Neutral
X-MailChannels-SenderId: wwwh|x-authuser|randell@jesup.org
X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: wwwh
X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1446770618806:250099814
X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1446770618806
Received: from pool-96-227-119-208.phlapa.fios.verizon.net ([96.227.119.208]:24083 helo=[192.168.1.12]) by r2-chicago.webserversystems.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from <randell-ietf@jesup.org>) id 1ZuV7x-00012M-R9 for rmcat@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Nov 2015 18:43:37 -0600
To: rmcat WG <rmcat@ietf.org>
From: Randell Jesup <randell-ietf@jesup.org>
Message-ID: <563BF7C3.40500@jesup.org>
Date: Thu, 05 Nov 2015 19:43:47 -0500
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.3.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-AuthUser: randell@jesup.org
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rmcat/uGgRGyBjBZRmk42JitbXdw4bLnY>
Subject: [rmcat] How we should handle feedback, and where the congestion should run
X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." <rmcat.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rmcat>, <mailto:rmcat-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rmcat/>
List-Post: <mailto:rmcat@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rmcat-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmcat>, <mailto:rmcat-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 00:44:05 -0000

The line in the room was cut, but a few comments:

Even if RMCAT yields a single algorithm, having a standardized feedback 
message will help future work to improve on the algorithm, or to develop 
or deploy future algorithms.  This will not be the last work done in 
this area, and I'm sure improvements will be worked on, and people will 
trial alternative algorithms.  Getting support for the "other end" is a 
huge step forward in trialing (or deploying) an algorithm.

Also it appears there are multiple implementers dealing with the 
bandwidth and frequency for RTCP traffic if the control is on the sender 
side.  Almost all algorithms *can* be moved to run entirely on one side 
or on the other.  Running it on the receiver side can dramatically 
reduce the feedback required (as Michael said in the room).  Given use 
of the RTP send-time header extension, there's very little info that the 
sender has that the receiver doesn't (mostly just the size and timing of 
any lost packets).  The bandwidth for sending CC results would be far 
less than any (compressed or not) arrival time feedback to the sender.

Running on the receiver also means that no "merging" of feedback data 
needs to be done to run CC across multiple streams/5-tuples/etc.

We can build a generic arrival-time feedback message, or we can build a 
generic results-of-receiver-CC message.

-- 
Randell Jesup -- rjesup a t mozilla d o t com
Please please please don't email randell-ietf@jesup.org!  Way too much spam