Re: [rmcat] WG last call: draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteria-07.txt
Joerg Ott <jo@netlab.tkk.fi> Fri, 02 November 2018 17:02 UTC
Return-Path: <jo@netlab.tkk.fi>
X-Original-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rmcat@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE02012EB11; Fri, 2 Nov 2018 10:02:08 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.199
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T02jSbpHqcW5; Fri, 2 Nov 2018 10:02:05 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from roundabout.aalto.fi (roundabout.aalto.fi [130.233.222.87]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2818129619; Fri, 2 Nov 2018 10:02:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from smtp-out-01.aalto.fi (smtp-out-01.aalto.fi [130.233.228.120]) by roundabout.aalto.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id D36A0802E8; Fri, 2 Nov 2018 19:01:59 +0200 (EET)
Received: from smtp-out-01.aalto.fi (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Email Security Appliance) with SMTP id EF14311546A_BDC825FB; Fri, 2 Nov 2018 16:59:11 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from smtp.netlab.hut.fi (luuri.netlab.hut.fi [130.233.154.177]) by smtp-out-01.aalto.fi (Sophos Email Appliance) with ESMTP id 7595F115416_BDC825FF; Fri, 2 Nov 2018 16:59:11 +0000 (GMT)
Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.netlab.hut.fi (Postfix) with ESMTP id 370821E0FF; Fri, 2 Nov 2018 19:01:59 +0200 (EET)
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at luuri.netlab.hut.fi
Received: from smtp.netlab.hut.fi ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (luuri.netlab.hut.fi [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 1Dmrju8-JeuZ; Fri, 2 Nov 2018 19:01:53 +0200 (EET)
Received: from alf.local (ip-109-41-193-141.web.vodafone.de [109.41.193.141]) by smtp.netlab.hut.fi (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5F1E01E03D; Fri, 2 Nov 2018 19:01:51 +0200 (EET)
To: Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org>, draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteria@ietf.org
Cc: "rmcat@ietf.org WG" <rmcat@ietf.org>
References: <152520102721.24767.12952595432840747794@ietfa.amsl.com> <A4BAE605-587F-4546-96E5-0C13310A289D@csperkins.org> <88FA7E60-241E-4DF8-A233-688961BCB6E9@csperkins.org> <B12D2E22-12A7-4FCA-B892-32FCE7C18263@csperkins.org>
From: Joerg Ott <jo@netlab.tkk.fi>
Message-ID: <afd8ed81-aa1c-07f6-3e12-b28a8a26661f@netlab.tkk.fi>
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2018 18:01:14 +0100
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <B12D2E22-12A7-4FCA-B892-32FCE7C18263@csperkins.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-SASI-RCODE: 200
X-SEA-Spam: Gauge=XXXXXXXXXIIIIII, Probability=96%, Report=' SXL_IP_PROXY 8, SXL_IP_DYNAMIC 3, TO_IN_SUBJECT 0.5, HTML_00_01 0.05, HTML_00_10 0.05, BODY_SIZE_5000_5999 0, BODY_SIZE_7000_LESS 0, IN_REP_TO 0, LEGITIMATE_SIGNS 0, MSG_THREAD 0, MULTIPLE_REAL_RCPTS 0, RDNS_GENERIC_POOLED 0, RDNS_SUSP 0, RDNS_SUSP_GENERIC 0, REFERENCES 0, SPF_NONE 0, __ANY_URI 0, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ 0, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT 0, __CC_NAME 0, __CC_NAME_DIFF_FROM_ACC 0, __CC_REAL_NAMES 0, __CP_MEDIA_BODY 0, __CP_NOT_1 0, __CP_URI_IN_BODY 0, __CT 0, __CTE 0, __CT_TEXT_PLAIN 0, __DQ_NEG_HEUR 0, __DQ_NEG_IP 0, __FORWARDED_MSG 0, __HAS_CC_HDR 0, __HAS_FROM 0, __HAS_MSGID 0, __HIGHBITS 0, __HTTPS_URI 0, __INVOICE_MULTILINGUAL 0, __IN_REP_TO 0, __MIME_TEXT_ONLY 0, __MIME_TEXT_P 0, __MIME_TEXT_P1 0, __MIME_VERSION 0, __MOZILLA_USER_AGENT 0, __MULTIPLE_URI_TEXT 0, __NO_HTML_TAG_RAW 0, __REFERENCES 0, __SANE_MSGID 0, __SUBJ_ALPHA_NEGATE 0, __SUBJ_REPLY 0, __TO_IN_SUBJECT2 0, __TO_MALFORMED_2 0, __TO_NAME 0, __TO_NAME_DIFF_FROM_ACC 0, __TO_REAL_NAMES 0, __URI_IN_BODY 0, __URI_NOT_IMG 0, __URI_NS , __URI_WITHOUT_PATH 0, __URI_WITH_PATH 0, __USER_AGENT 0'
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rmcat/ySHdlKofyVbIIrmDTGd6itTYLF4>
Subject: Re: [rmcat] WG last call: draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteria-07.txt
X-BeenThere: rmcat@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques \(RMCAT\) Working Group discussion list." <rmcat.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rmcat>, <mailto:rmcat-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/rmcat/>
List-Post: <mailto:rmcat@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rmcat-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmcat>, <mailto:rmcat-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2018 17:02:09 -0000
Hi Colin, thanks much for the comments. Finally, a first (not yet complete) stab at this: > * Section 3 begins “Each experiment is expected to…” but the draft > hasn’t yet introduced the idea that there are some experiments that > need to be completed. Added a some context intro. > * Rather than talk about “RMCAT proposals”, “RMCAT flows”, etc., > discuss “proposed RTP congestion control algorithms”, “congestion > controlled RTP flows”, and so on. The RFC will live longer than the > RMCAT working group. Fixed throughout the draft. > * Section 3: bullet 10 should be rephrased for clarity. Bullet 10 is the editor's note? > * Does Section 3.1 need to describe the precise format, or just > the information to be logged? Does it matter that the file is CSV > format? I'd say it simplifies running comparisons in the end and avoids parsing errors, but I don't feel strongly here. Any format would do. > * Section 4.1: The introductory text only talks about high latency > links, then gives examples covering a range of latencies. Expands > remarks “, as well as low-latency links” Done. > * Section 4.2: might be appropriate to add some motivating remarks. Done. > * Section 4.3: add some remarks to motivate drop-tail? This begs a broader discussion now that some time has passed since the initial version of this draft. Should we include AQM models (such as CoDel or variants thereof) as well? > * Section 4.5.3: clarify if this recommended distribution applies to > both sections 4.5.1 and 4.5.2. Only 4.5.2 is mandatory. The same distribution could be applied to both jitter models. Not sure how much we need to say explicitly. > * Section 6.1: first paragraph ends mid-sentence. Done. An interesting question is if DASH-style flows should be considered, too. Should we specify TCP congestion control? E.g., CUBIC? > * Section 6.3: is it worth mentioning that QUIC flows use UDP, but > are expected to have dynamics that look a lot like TCP, so don’t > need to be explicitly included here? Added a note here. Should we anticipate future divergence from TCP behavior? > * Section 7: security needs to be discussed. Maybe point out > denial-of-service issues due to lack of congestion control, or > denial-of-service on the congestion controlled flow due to spoofing > of control signals, and state that the candidate algorithms should > consider. The only specific security issue I can think of the these > criteria is checking that the algorithm works as expected in these > cases. This remains tbd. Maybe we can have a quick chat next week. > * Please spell-check the draft. Done. Will submit as soon as the I-D tool allows this again (read: on the weekend, even if this means a short-term expiry of the draft. Jörg >> On 20 Jun 2018, at 10:46, Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org >> <mailto:csp@csperkins.org>> wrote: >> >> This is to announce a working group last call on “Evaluating >> Congestion Control for Interactive Real-time Media” >> (draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteria-07). >> >> Please send any final comments to the working group mailing list and >> the authors by 20 July 2018 (the date of the RMCAT session at IETF >> 102). If no substantive comments are received by that time, we intend >> to submit this draft to the IESG for publication as an Informational RFC. >> >> Colin >> >> >> >>> On 2 May 2018, at 11:52, Colin Perkins <csp@csperkins.org >>> <mailto:csp@csperkins.org>> wrote: >>> >>> Jörg – thanks for updating this draft! >>> >>> Any comments from the group before we progress this? >>> >>> Colin >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 1 May 2018, at 19:57, Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >>>> <mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>>> directories. >>>> This draft is a work item of the RTP Media Congestion Avoidance >>>> Techniques WG of the IETF. >>>> >>>> Title : Evaluating Congestion Control for Interactive >>>> Real-time Media >>>> Authors : Varun Singh >>>> Joerg Ott >>>> Stefan Holmer >>>> Filename : draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteria-07.txt >>>> Pages : 16 >>>> Date : 2018-05-01 >>>> >>>> Abstract: >>>> The Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP) is used to transmit media in >>>> telephony and video conferencing applications. This document >>>> describes the guidelines to evaluate new congestion control >>>> algorithms for interactive point-to-point real-time media. >>>> >>>> >>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteria/ >>>> >>>> There are also htmlized versions available at: >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteria-07 >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteria-07 >>>> >>>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteria-07 >>>> >>>> >>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>>> submission >>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>> >>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Colin Perkins >>> https://csperkins.org/ >> > > > > -- > Colin Perkins > https://csperkins.org/ > > > >
- [rmcat] WG last call: draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-crite… Colin Perkins
- [rmcat] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-criteri… internet-drafts
- Re: [rmcat] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-cri… Colin Perkins
- Re: [rmcat] WG last call: draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-c… Colin Perkins
- Re: [rmcat] WG last call: draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-c… Joerg Ott
- Re: [rmcat] WG last call: draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-c… Joerg Ott
- Re: [rmcat] WG last call: draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-c… Colin Perkins
- Re: [rmcat] WG last call: draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-c… Joerg Ott
- Re: [rmcat] WG last call: draft-ietf-rmcat-eval-c… Colin Perkins