Re: [Rmt] About Flute-revised open points
"David Harrington" <ietfdbh@comcast.net> Wed, 13 April 2011 07:47 UTC
Return-Path: <ietfdbh@comcast.net>
X-Original-To: rmt@ietfc.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rmt@ietfc.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfc.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2991EE06B9 for <rmt@ietfc.amsl.com>; Wed, 13 Apr 2011 00:47:45 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -102.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([208.66.40.236]) by localhost (ietfc.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sD7tcwUktYbi for <rmt@ietfc.amsl.com>; Wed, 13 Apr 2011 00:47:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from qmta14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.59.212]) by ietfc.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 569FFE0674 for <rmt@ietf.org>; Wed, 13 Apr 2011 00:47:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from omta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.27]) by qmta14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id Wvmq1g0030bG4ec5EvnkCv; Wed, 13 Apr 2011 07:47:44 +0000
Received: from davidPC ([188.20.103.10]) by omta03.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id WvnF1g00B0DTzuc3PvnT4G; Wed, 13 Apr 2011 07:47:42 +0000
From: David Harrington <ietfdbh@comcast.net>
To: Rod.Walsh@nokia.com, brian.adamson@nrl.navy.mil, magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
References: <1302348585.4017.17.camel@Nokia-N900>
In-Reply-To: <1302348585.4017.17.camel@Nokia-N900>
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 09:47:09 +0200
Message-ID: <C32238CBE79A491CAF9E23E5C5F1C8AC@davidPC>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00F0_01CBF9BF.D1EFBB10"
X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.1.7600.16543
Thread-Index: Acv2qXVsJF/69JTzS0O60yc5Eki+fgDAtz7A
Cc: rmt@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Rmt] About Flute-revised open points
X-BeenThere: rmt@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Reliable Multicast Transport <rmt.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rmt>, <mailto:rmt-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rmt>
List-Post: <mailto:rmt@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rmt-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt>, <mailto:rmt-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 07:47:45 -0000
Hi, I think it makes no difference whether it is byte-to-long or long-to-byte. If one implementation sends a long value to an implementation that supports only byte, they do not interoperate. Both ends need to agree or you lose interoperability. If the specs differ, then you need a mechanism to determine which set of rules are followed - a version# dbh _____ From: rmt-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:rmt-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rod.Walsh@nokia.com Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 1:30 PM To: brian.adamson@nrl.navy.mil; magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com Cc: rmt@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Rmt] About Flute-revised open points Error in previous message: long to byte change in xml is fine. (Other other way round could have been fatal). Cheers, Rod. ----- Original message ----- > Thanks for Dave's link, I'll check this out next week. > > Meanwhile... > > It seems like I am being painted a little like the outlier with last > minute jitters. As Vincent kindly pointed out there are a few unresolved > threads that have been running a long while. Mostly we simply haven't > bothered to get them resolved. For each of those years. (And I must also > personally appologise for not tracking LCT and ALC at each revision so > as catch the greater than agreed impact on FLUTE before they went > standards track. Of course we may well have had the same end result, > just without the percenption of last minute issues). In spite of > originally agreeing to maintain compatability where feasible, we're now > stuck with some long term undiscolsed design decisions. Practically, we > may have to embrace the unknown, but it's reasonable engineering to > point out that our process has these black spots, whether communicated > as last minute jitters or otherwise :) > > So as Magnus earlier suggested, I feel we need to be pragmatic with what > we have. At the same time I feel we need a bit of design explanation > where it exists as the rmt mailing list has been a close approximation > to silent on these issues for most for this bis/revised era. (E.g. I > hope I've overlooked the discussion or notification of non-backwards > comatible changes prior to an updated ID appearing for LCT and ALC, and > would be grateful to hear that this is so). > > Meanwhile, to Vincent's couple of points: > > 1. Yes, in RMT terms that's a recent email with responses awaiting > conclusion, discussion or anything. The crux is what consitutes a > compatibility breaking change (e.g. Graceful and non-harmful failure of > an experimental implementation does not IMHO). And what is the list of > these such changes? (Which I will turn to Dave's link for) > > 2. Yes, a disclosed design change. Again the critical thing is the > comatibility (and the design logic). As far as I can tell there's just > one fatal change (long to byte - for which I have not found any > explanation). Otherwise and failures are graceful and happily compatible > as said in the messages that were kindly linked by Vincent. I haven't > had the opportunity to follow up the namespace specifics, but as Magnus > originally pointed out, leaving 'example.com' was a goof - and thus > obviously experimental FLUTE recievers are experienced at ignoring that > part of the XML. > > For my part, I'll have a look at Dave's material in the near future and > work with Jani to enhance the security provisions of FLUTE-SDP. Please > point out if any of the other loose threads are pending a response from > me. > > Cheers, Rod. > > > > ----- Original message ----- > > I agree with Magnus here. I hope that Rod can review Vincent's > > historical summary of the issues and provide consensus or comments to > > help us resolve this. > > > > > > Additionally, here is a link to the message that summarizes the > > backwards incompatibility issues identified by Dave Harrington's AD > > review of FLUTE: > > > > > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rmt/current/msg01434.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > best regards, > > > > > > > > Brian Adamson > > brian.adamson@nrl.navy.mil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 31, 2011, at 11:01 AM, Magnus Westerlund wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I think this is a good example of what I expect in this discussion. > I > > > think that a number of the changes has good reasons to their > changes > > > and > > > that we are not likely to reverse the WG documents text. For the > > > record > > > I don't really remember the reasons for the designs in this schema > and > > > what the underlying 3GPP reasons are. > > > > > > I have no rapid need for an updated flute so I am willing to let > this > > > discussion go on for a while. Especially letting people try to dig > up > > > any more motivations. But the fact is that the WG spent 5+ years in > > > producing this document. There are reasons why it looks like it > does. > > > Reversing that decision at the last minute seems dangerous and > likely > > > to > > > cause more issues than actually bumping the version number. > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Magnus > > > > > > > > > Everybody, > > > > A follow-up to our long discussion during the meeting: > > > > 1- Concerning Flute version, the email that convinced > > me of the necessity to move to version 2 is the > > following one, from Mike, sent on Feb 7, 2011: > > > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rmt/current/msg01511.html > > > > 2- Concerning XML extensibility, after searching a little > > bit better in my archives, I finally found the initial reasons. > > See the following 3 emails (from June 2005): > > > > * The initial email (from Rod) explaining why 3GPP proposed > > another schema: > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rmt/current/msg00404.html > > > > * The answer from Magnus, with the 3GPP schema: > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rmt/current/msg00477.html > > > > * Finally Rod's promise (yes!!!) to include this schema: > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rmt/current/msg00482.html > > > > That's for the history. The question now is what do we want > > to do? > > > > Vincent > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rmt mailing list > > > Rmt@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Magnus Westerlund > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 > > > Färögatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 > > > SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Rmt mailing list > > > Rmt@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rmt > > > > > > > > > > > > <Attachment> ATT00001..txt > > > <Attachment> ATT00001..txt
- [Rmt] About Flute-revised open points Vincent Roca
- Re: [Rmt] About Flute-revised open points Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [Rmt] About Flute-revised open points brian.adamson
- Re: [Rmt] About Flute-revised open points Rod.Walsh
- Re: [Rmt] About Flute-revised open points Rod.Walsh
- Re: [Rmt] About Flute-revised open points David Harrington
- Re: [Rmt] About Flute-revised open points Rod.Walsh
- Re: [Rmt] About Flute-revised open points Rod.Walsh