Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN
Don Sturek <d.sturek@att.net> Wed, 15 October 2014 20:24 UTC
Return-Path: <d.sturek@att.net>
X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F7331ACC87 for <roll@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 13:24:05 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.512
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.512 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MALFORMED_FREEMAIL=2.511, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kJoXEjvDi0TR for <roll@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 13:24:04 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from nm18-vm6.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm18-vm6.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com [216.109.115.85]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 091D61ACC89 for <roll@ietf.org>; Wed, 15 Oct 2014 13:24:01 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1413404641; bh=DqUehMGUiYeSVo9Bz+ELZpgazMeY1c4AyFBvAXl01Dk=; h=Date:Subject:From:To:CC:References:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=n5TEkMcCunymvxbuv2gE+Ews4nfPqWKd6oockAlCkKbZagFfMrOcYqmlFG5GP1D50eIyBaFWfQcq2IxDJokELG6vTY5lFoOC3iXeqKP4ORXBqqSNO8nMTYb8x5Alc4Qfco0ORtWXZqy8cjnZ6TmZffwkiQKlTtoue4ihEt3o5i0=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=att.net; b=DMPf3lnQHAKIEgt7gnLMoACRjZYKNrzHdDwv43+dc1QmvxgA5wASO5PdY4SGRvh6udqZWxxWC4EVF0on+t6x2MlzdQ1EtOWYFnZjDmd02AKm2euEm8B00fcLNhltJxeoz9WVFkJHoH2u58+eWl/oZnBFllI+q1JxJgmPmP0ViDQ=;
Received: from [66.196.81.165] by nm18.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Oct 2014 20:24:01 -0000
Received: from [98.138.104.97] by tm11.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Oct 2014 20:24:01 -0000
Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp117.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 15 Oct 2014 20:24:01 -0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1413404641; bh=DqUehMGUiYeSVo9Bz+ELZpgazMeY1c4AyFBvAXl01Dk=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:User-Agent:Date:Subject:From:To:CC:Message-ID:Thread-Topic:References:In-Reply-To:Mime-version:Content-type:Content-transfer-encoding; b=1nmgUk00t6h5y9Ws2CzcpbHHdlympnqEMFH9tQwJIxdm1xqZ20qgsx4Plty7J/oMH48zRpoKh3HpqYHWUme5gAHa8G1hjkXbELT/FFaP7uL5vGlRD/7SwFFTCpW2swQvKBhkVbim1m7Bab8DO4/KOfuxNH3KaK9re6pUhqQiybA=
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 72597.19861.bm@smtp117.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3
X-YMail-OSG: flbN_6sVM1n87WDQ7.wrzU1w.JHeI.K._QtYkPRcespmIM8 IUw84cOvKL4jjaCldGXirbz4Z_rzfKmKlNRVv4JgAahTNBE_KYHkdrIXk9iP 6SgVMvrVPn4yoGbEKHfpu2qU0Bzu1YGpUGoBTzukT6erfK6f25rBSTyiw0Po GzM1g.hjzp4jvNruUOoKc1bySZaLX2gzLmGAKKSpCHAHpuKeCkdV.XjLaPte LJJtNxuj7F5Aohnfmeb6CIyPhKgTSvIwCyxE5vnAPGznqEXKKrWdm86BnMfk I_0xb1g2uz1VIOKVXk.H4XFPnQ7pXLc7y88O82rVed8ApYfDQA3hVr4D6QGk IT6J0UQgE1XB49IYAzG0gEaCVBDL9ezqLQjFRk2g4OPILsAM_ofqxcsi0MRK tqq0DjXKvNTKC0ZdpDJ3gX2Mp2M1XEgRWnHJBDNinA14YN0tR1h4yI0G5CXn a4vfQqScHRIc8Jn.tswV0gZbWO1fAAPAqnqgHyo21i9ZTV3cQUFEeArQtVK6 0og7KSTEk4wpHVwXttN2Od.Vc_ecTS79rjRBxyU3L
X-Yahoo-SMTP: fvjol_aswBAraSJvMLe2r1XTzhBhbFxY8q8c3jo-
User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 13:23:56 -0700
From: Don Sturek <d.sturek@att.net>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <D0642422.2EAB2%d.sturek@att.net>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN
References: <aef2e75903e84afe988ff58d04a0fc56@DB4PR01MB0431.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com> <6B9D200B-58B8-423C-ADEA-A6C61F73748B@cisco.com> <AC402B16-8AD9-4033-A7F3-780725F9BAB8@tzi.org> <CABOxzu0-MLJ9esL55oxj_eQRpzXJrf6XErV+jd6UeZ2vuF0H5w@mail.gmail.com> <E045AECD98228444A58C61C200AE1BD842E1C49A@xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com> <CABOxzu2d_JNFQ+Nu9mw=pW2TPG7qxFm6ocLFvSXChvA_By3xVw@mail.gmail.com> <E045AECD98228444A58C61C200AE1BD842E1C6B0@xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com> <D063F2D8.2EA57%d.sturek@att.net> <73405C1D-6BD2-4030-8AE9-11B0EDBCE308@tzi.org>
In-Reply-To: <73405C1D-6BD2-4030-8AE9-11B0EDBCE308@tzi.org>
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/OLfSm7bQHfbTQu7jHbTqzQ3cyJ8
Cc: "IJsbrand Wijnands (iwijnand)" <ice@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN
X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/roll>, <mailto:roll-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/roll/>
List-Post: <mailto:roll@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:roll-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll>, <mailto:roll-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 20:24:05 -0000
Hi Carsten, On your questions posed below: 1) We are using non-storing 2) Distribution of group sizes. This is a tough question. I think some groups may be nearly the size of the entire network (say I want to send a message to all of my smart meters but don't need the relays or AP's to get the message). Some may be regionally focused and therefore small (eg, I have an outage and I want the smart meters in one location to report on the quality of the electric service they are seeing). Some may be geographically focused (like the example for the street light application wanting to manage street lights around a festival). I think the right answer here is we want applications to opt in/opt out of application multicast groups and we want the network forwarding to be smart enough to not flood the entire network if that is not needed. I know that is not the answer you are particularly looking for but I think that is the right answer. By the way, if I have an application multicast group that is nearly the entire population of the network, it would be really great if the network operator knew this and reduced those types of multicast transmissions. The biggest savings would be where we really only want to hit devices in a certain georgraphy and now we don't need every device in the network to see that traffic..... If we do this right, then we will arm the application developers with the ability to create their own groups (with some knowledge/understanding from the network operator) and the ability for the forwarding of the multicast traffic to avoid saturating the network with broadcast traffic that is not needed for that application multicast group. Don On 10/15/14 1:08 PM, "Carsten Bormann" <cabo@tzi.org> wrote: >Hi Don, > >this sounds exactly like a use case our multicasting approach can solve. > >Two questions: > >1) Are you using storing or non-storing mode for RPL? > >2) For the kinds of groups below, was is the likely distribution of group >sizes? > >Grüße, Carsten > >On 15 Oct 2014, at 18:58, Don Sturek <d.sturek@att.net> wrote: > >> 4) From an application point of view, we want to use special >>application-defined multicast groups for things like: >> A. Control a geographic collection of street lights (like all >>the ones in an area where there is to be a festival this evening) >> B. Control a geographically diverse collection of devices >>that are not the entire population (for example, I want a message sent >>to all of my pre-pay customers which are mainly focused in some >>neighborhoods, less in others) > >_______________________________________________ >Roll mailing list >Roll@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
- [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Turner, Randy
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Turner, Randy
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Kerry Lynn
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Kerry Lynn
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Turner, Randy
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Don Sturek
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Don Sturek
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Turner, Randy
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Don Sturek
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Kerry Lynn
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Turner, Randy
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Michael Richardson
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Michael Richardson
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Michael Richardson
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Kerry Lynn
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN peter van der Stok
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Don Sturek
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] multicast & MLD on LLN Don Sturek