Re: [Roll] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl-10: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com> Thu, 16 September 2021 13:30 UTC
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From: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2021 06:30:04 -0700
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To: Charles Perkins <charliep@lupinlodge.com>, Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>, Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Cc: roll-chairs@ietf.org, mariainesrobles@googlemail.com, draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl-10: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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[Just moving this up the queue. Thanks!] On August 18, 2021 at 4:56:46 PM, Charles Perkins (charliep@lupinlodge.com) wrote: Hello Roman, Please excuse the unusually long delay it has taken for us to respond to your comments. Regarding the following: > Roman Danyliw Discuss > Discuss (2021-04-21) > ** Section 10 > If a rogue router knows the key for the Security Configuration in > use, it can join the secure AODV-RPL route discovery and cause > various types of damage. Such a rogue router could advertise false > information in its DIOs in order to include itself in the discovered > route(s). It could generate bogus RREQ-DIO, and RREP-DIO messages > carrying bad routes or maliciously modify genuine RREP-DIO messages > it receives. A rogue router acting as the OrigNode could launch > denial-of-service attacks against the LLN deployment by initiating > fake AODV-RPL route discoveries. In this type of scenario, RPL's > preinstalled mode of operation, where the key to use for a P2P-RPL > route discovery is preinstalled, SHOULD be used. > Can the normative language in the last sentence please be clarified. The > entire paragraph prior is describing the behavior of the attacker. Is this > last sentence is suggesting a particular mode of operation? If the router > is rogue, how is the fact that the key is pre-installed inhibit the behavior > of the attacker? We are just referring to normative behavior in a published RFC. It is not the purpose of AODV-RPL to develop new security mechanisms, and so we rely on existing specification. The vulnerability is not new or specific to AODV-RPL. > Comment (2021-04-21) > ** I support John’s DISUSS. My feedback are also around clarifying what > AODV-RPL inherits from RPL. Our response to John addresses this comment. > ** Section 10. Per "In general, the security considerations for the > operation of AODV-RPL are similar to those for the operation of RPL", > to be clear do all of the considerations from RFC6550 apply? The caveat > of "In general "" doesn’t necessarily suggest that to me. "In general" needs to be deleted. We will identify which considerations do not apply, if any. Since the routing is point-to-point instead of only star-shaped, AODV-RPL may have other security threats to be considered in addition to RPL security considerations. > ** Section 10. Unless AODV-RPL is upgrading the requirements of RPL, I > believe all of the referenced security framework is optional. I would > recommend being clear on that: > OLD: > Sections 6.1 and 10 > of [RFC6550] describe RPL's security framework, which provides data > confidentiality, authentication, replay protection, and delay > protection services. > NEW: > Sections 6.1 and 10 of [RFC6550] describe RPL's optional security > framework, which AODV-RPL rely on to provides data confidentiality, > authentication, replay protection, and delay protection services. Thanks for the text. > ** Section 10. Per "A router can join a temporary DAG " only if it > can support the Security Configuration in use, which also specifies > the key I use": > -- Is "Security Configuration" a term of art in RPL to be capitalized? > I'm not sure if this is editorial feedback or a reference to some RPL > mechanism. "Security Configuration" should not have been capitalized. > -- Is this section referring to the processes described in Section 10.2 > of RFC6550? I ask because couldn’t there be an RPL configuration which > doesn’t use secure join (i.e., "unsecured mode" per Section 10.1 of > RFC6550)? The security configuration refers to Section 6.1 of RFC6550 entitled "RPL Security Fields" for configuring various security variants. Other RPL security configurations might not use secure join. During AODV-RPL route discovey, a router can join a temporary DAG created with any of the security modes of operation per Section 10.1 of RFC6550. In modes other than "unsecured" mode, a router can join only if it can support the security configuration in use, which also specifies the key in use. > ** Section 10. This section introduces a new acronym "P2P-RPL" not used > in any other part of the document That terminology is not needed at all, and is to be deleted. Regards, Charlie P. On 4/21/2021 4:03 PM, Roman Danyliw via Datatracker wrote: > Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl-10: Discuss > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ** Section 10 > > If a rogue router knows the key for the Security Configuration in > use, it can join the secure AODV-RPL route discovery and cause > various types of damage. Such a rogue router could advertise false > information in its DIOs in order to include itself in the discovered > route(s). It could generate bogus RREQ-DIO, and RREP-DIO messages > carrying bad routes or maliciously modify genuine RREP-DIO messages > it receives. A rogue router acting as the OrigNode could launch > denial-of-service attacks against the LLN deployment by initiating > fake AODV-RPL route discoveries. In this type of scenario, RPL's > preinstalled mode of operation, where the key to use for a P2P-RPL > route discovery is preinstalled, SHOULD be used. > > Can the normative language in the last sentence please be clarified. The > entire paragraph prior is describing the behavior of the attacker. Is this > last sentence is suggesting a particular mode of operation? If the router is > rogue, how is the fact that the key is pre-installed inhibit the behavior of > the attacker? > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ** I support John’s DISUSS. My feedback are also around clarifying what > AODV-RPL inherits from RPL. > > ** Section 10. Per “In general, the security considerations for the operation > of AODV-RPL are similar to those for the operation of RPL”, to be clear do all > of the considerations from RFC6550 apply? The caveat of “In general …” doesn’t > necessarily suggest that to me. > > ** Section 10. Unless AODV-RPL is upgrading the requirements of RPL, I believe > all of the referenced security framework is optional. I would recommend being > clear on that: > > OLD: > Sections 6.1 and 10 > of [RFC6550] describe RPL's security framework, which provides data > confidentiality, authentication, replay protection, and delay > protection services. > > NEW: > Sections 6.1 and 10 of [RFC6550] describe RPL's optional security framework, > which AODV-RPL rely on to provides data confidentiality, authentication, replay > protection, and delay protection services. > > ** Section 10. Per “A router can join a temporary DAG … only if it can > support the Security Configuration in use, which also specifies the key I use”: > > -- Is “Security Configuration” a term of art in RPL to be capitalized? I'm not > sure if this is editorial feedback or a reference to some RPL mechanism. > > -- Is this section referring to the processes described in Section 10.2 of > RFC6550? I ask because couldn’t there be an RPL configuration which doesn’t > use secure join (i.e., “unsecured mode” per Section 10.1 of RFC6550)? > > ** Section 10. This section introduces a new acronym “P2P-RPL” not used in any > other part of the document > > > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
- [Roll] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll… Roman Danyliw via Datatracker
- Re: [Roll] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Charles Perkins
- Re: [Roll] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Roll] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Roman Danyliw