Re: [Roll] AD Review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-16
"Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com> Wed, 30 October 2019 07:38 UTC
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>, Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao@ietf.org>
CC: "roll-chairs@ietf.org" <roll-chairs@ietf.org>, roll <roll@ietf.org>, Peter van der Stok <consultancy@vanderstok.org>
Thread-Topic: AD Review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-16
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Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2019 07:38:36 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Roll] AD Review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-16
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There was a typo, the proposed text in section 7 reads: RPL Status subfields: E: 1-bit flag. Set to indicate a rejection. When not set, a value of 0 indicates success and other values indicate an non-outright- rejection as per RFC 6550. A: 1-bit flag. Indicates the type of the status value. Status Value: 6-bit unsigned integer. If the 'A' flag is set this field transports a status value defined for IPv6 ND EARO. When the 'A' flag is reset, the status value is defined in a RPL extension. Voila! Pascal > -----Original Message----- > From: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> > Sent: mardi 29 octobre 2019 18:22 > To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>; draft-ietf-roll-efficient- > npdao@ietf.org > Cc: roll-chairs@ietf.org; roll <roll@ietf.org>; Peter van der Stok > <consultancy@vanderstok.org> > Subject: RE: AD Review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-16 > > Dear all > > More on the proposal below: > > The proposal is to place more details in the RPL status in the RUL draft and > make it a normative ref to efficient NPDAO. > > Changes in the efficient NPDAO draft: > ==================== > > - Make the RUL draft a normative reference > > - new description of the status: > " > RPL Status: As defined in [RFC6550] and updated in > [I-D.ietf-roll-unaware-leaves]. The root or common parent that > generates a DCO is authoritative for setting the status information > and the information is unchanged as propagated down the DODAG. This > document does not specify a differentiated action based on the RPL > status. > " > > > > Changes in the RUL draft: > ==================== > > - In 4. Updating RFC 6550, add: > > " > The RPL Status defined in section 6.5.1. of [RFC6550] for use in the > DAO-Ack message is extended to be used in the DCO messages > [EFFICIENT-NPDAO] as well. Furthermore, this specification enables > to use a RPL status to transport the IPv6 ND status defined for use > in the EARO, more in Section 7. > " > > - Create a section 7 as: > > " > 7. Updated RPL Status > > The RPL Status is defined in section 6.5.1. of [RFC6550] for use in > the DAO-Ack message and values are assigned as follows: > > +---------+---------------------------+ > | Range | Meaning | > +=========+===========================+ > | 0 | RFC 6550 | > +---------+---------------------------+ > | 1-127 | Not an outright rejection | > +---------+---------------------------+ > | 128-255 | Rejection | > +---------+---------------------------+ > > Table 1: RPL Status per RFC 6550 > > This specification extends the scope of the RPL status to be used in > RPL DCO messages. Furthermore, this specification enables to carry > the status values defined for use in the IPv6 ND Extended Address > Registration Option (EARO) and listed in table 1 of [RFC8505]. Only > EARO status values in the range 0-63 can be transported. The > resulting RPL status is as follows: > > 0 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > |E|A| Value | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > > RPL Status subfields: > > E: 1-bit flag. Set to indicate a rejection. When not set, A value > of 0 indicates success. Other values are non-rejection as per RFC > 6550. > > A: 1-bit flag. Set to indicate the type of the status value. > > Value: 6-bit unsigned integer. If the 'E' flag is set this field > transports a status value defined for IPv6 ND EARO. When the 'E' > flag is reset, the status value is defined in a RPL extension > > When building a DCO message upon an IPv6 ND NA or DAC message, the > root MUST place the ARO status unchanged in a mapped DCO with the 'A' > bit set. Conversely the 6LR MUST place the ARO status unchanged in > the NA(EARO) that is built upon a DCO with the 'A' bit set. > > " > > - Remove section 12.2 since we do not create new status values, we now > transport the ARO status as defined by ND. > > - Instead, create the missing registries that RFC 6550 did not as " > > 13.2. New Subregistry for the RPL Non-Rejection Status values > > This specification creates a new subregistry for the RPL Non- > Rejection Status values for use in RPL DAO-ACK and RCO Messages, > under the ICMPv6 parameters registry. > > * Possible values are 6-bit unsigned integers (0..63). > > * Registration procedure is "Standards Action" [RFC8126]. > > * Initial allocation is as indicated in Table 2: > > +-------+------------------------+---------------+ > | Value | Meaning | Defining Spec | > +=======+========================+===============+ > | 0 | Unqualified acceptance | RFC 6550 | > +-------+------------------------+---------------+ > > Table 2: Status values of the RPL DAO-ACK Message > > 13.3. New Subregistry for the RPL Rejection Status values > > This specification creates a new subregistry for the RPL Non- > Rejection Status values for use in RPL DAO-ACK and RCO Messages, > under the ICMPv6 parameters registry. > > * Possible values are 6-bit unsigned integers (0..63). > > * Registration procedure is "Standards Action" [RFC8126]. > > * There is no initial allocation > " > > > Fire at will! > > Pascal > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) > > Sent: mardi 29 octobre 2019 10:52 > > To: 'Alvaro Retana' <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>; > > draft-ietf-roll-efficient- npdao@ietf.org > > Cc: roll-chairs@ietf.org; roll <roll@ietf.org>; Peter van der Stok > > <consultancy@vanderstok.org> > > Subject: RE: AD Review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npdao-16 > > > > . > > > > > > > > It cannot be a convergence because RPL had rules in > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6550#section-6.5.1 whereby the > > > > status below > > > > 128 are warning. > > > > That provision was not really used so far to my best knowledge. So > > > > we could drop it. We chose not to so far. Could be done though if > > > > that's your recommendation. > > > > > > I think that would be a lot clearer...but that is a decision that > > > the WG needs to make. > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe we could restructure the RPL Status with the first 2 bits > > becoming significant as opposed to the first bit only. > > > > Today: > > > > Bit 0 set => error > > Bits 1->7 => status code > > > > Proposed change: > > > > Bit 0 set => means error ( 0 is warning or OK) Bit 1 set => > > transporting ARO status (refers to RFC 8505 and updates for definition > > off the next status) Bits > > 2->7 => status code | ARO status depending on bit 1 > > > > > > > > > > (2) draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves doesn't update the allocation > > > > > guidelines from rfc6550 (§6.5.1) for the Status, which then > > > > > lands "moved" in the "Rejection" range. IOW, the meaning is > > > > > changed, but the original meaning of the DAO-ACK Status is not > updated... > > > > > > > > > > [We are not reviewing draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves here, so > > > > > some of these comments can be saved for later. ;-)] > > > > > > > > I see: we need to indicate that we update/extend the semantics of > > > > a the DAO-ACK status. > > > > Should that be indicated in npdao draft or in unaware leaves, > > > > where the IANA is done for all? > > > > > > If the IANA update is to be done in draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves, > > > then there (that is part of the reason for the Normative dependence > below). > > > > > > I'm good with that. Considering the stage of this doc, I'd rather not > > change it too much and do the above in the RUL draft. > > We can complete the RUL draft quite quickly now, and ship this > > useofrplinfo and RUL together. > > > > > > > > > > Needless to say, I don't like this approach. > > > > > > To be clear, what I don't like is the fact that message that seem to > > > be intended for different things (ND, DAO-ACK, DCO) share the same > > > status information...and that it is not consistently corresponding > > > (the same values don't mean the same things...)....so while > > > homogenizing is a good thing, we seem to (currently) only go half way. > > > > > > > This is really helpful, Alvaro. > > I read the whole answer once before starting to answer and the > > proposal above is what I found to meet this and the below. > > > > > > > > We are specifying it right now in Efficient-NPDAO. RFC 8505 was > > > > forward looking to that respect. It had to indicate the ND status > > > > for that case and that status is "moved". > > > > - It means the guys was down there but is no more. Which is > > > > exactly the topic of NPDAA, cleanup a downwards path that leads to > > > > a location from which the target has moved away. > > > > - But it could not discuss how RPL translates it back and forth. > > > > The generic spec for that is unaware-leaves. DCO is a special case > > > > of RC/status that matches "moved" in RFC 8505. > > > > > > Ok...so this piece is also dependent on > > > draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves. I expect then clear pointers from > > > draft-ietf-roll- efficient-npdao to it. > > > > > > > > > > Certainly > > > > > > > > The meaning we wanted to convey is that when propagating down the > > > > DCO, the status from the parent MUST be repeated unchanged to the > > children. > > > > > > Yes, I understand. > > > > > > My question is from the Normative point of view. The rfc2119 > > > keywords "MUST only be used where it is actually required for > interoperation". > > > If informative, then we don't need "MUST NOT"...but if there is a > > > behavior expectation (or as you wrote above: "be turned into ND > > > again and in those cases the meaning must be conveyed unmodified"), > > > then the required behavior should be able to be verified > > > somehow...and, ideally, the specification should include an > > > indication of what the behavior should be if the mandatory action is > > > not met. We can of course trust that nodes will follow the > > > specification and will not change the > > contents of the status... > > > > > > So..I would like to see a couple of things: > > > > > > (1) A clear indication of whether specific behavior is expected (you > > > have mentioned it twice in this thread, but the document doesn't > > > reflect that) or not based on the status. > > > > Will do > > > > > > > > (2) Text (maybe in the security considerations) pointing out the > > > effect of, changing the value in-flight, and how (if possible) to mitigate it. > > > > Same here. Note that I do not have a mitigation in mind right now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suggestion to reword from the perspective of the intermediate router. > > > > > > > > > (2) If only values > 128 are expected, then what should a > > > > > receiver do if a value < 128 is received? Should the DCO not be > > > > > propagated > > further? > > > > > > > > Yes, the DCO should be propagated and as done today, it causes the > > > > destruction of the path regardless of the value of the status, > > > > even a warning <128. > > > > Should we change that so a warning is propagated but the route is > > > > conserved or something? There is no known usage of that today, > > > > does that protect the future better? > > > > > > Going back to the text, which reads: "Only Rejection Codes (values > > > of > > > 128 and above) are expected in a DCO." Also, going back to your > > > statements above about specific behavior resulting from the status > > > value. I just want to make sure the specification is clear related > > > to what should be done; if any value is ok, then the text is, at > > > minimum not clear...if the behavior depends on the value, then > > > there's an effect if the > > value is not that is expected... > > > > > > > That text goes away if you agree with the proposal of the additional > > bit in the RPL status. The new text would say that "the ARO status > > MUST be placed unchanged by the root" in the mapped DCO with the bit > > ARO set. Conversely that the "6LR MUST place the mapped ARO status in > > the NA(ARO) that is built upon the DCO". > > > > RPL already has text like " > > The root of a DODAG is > > authoritative for setting that information and the information is > > unchanged as propagated down the DODAG. > > " > > > > We can emulate that form for the DCO, say that "The root or common > > parent that generates a DCO is authoritative for setting the status > > information and the information is unchanged as propagated down the > > DODAG. " The transported ARO status is just a case of that. We'd also > > say that "this spec does not specify a differentiated action based on the > status." > > > > > > > > > > I hope we're making progress. If not, we might want to think about > > > speaking live. :-) > > > > We are. If you agree with the proposed line above I'll make editions > > and come back to you for more comments and/or approval. > > > > This is all very much appreciated, Alvaro. > > > > Pascal
- [Roll] AD Review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient-npd… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Roll] AD Review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] AD Review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Roll] AD Review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] AD Review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Roll] AD Review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] AD Review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] AD Review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Roll] AD Review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] AD Review of draft-ietf-roll-efficient… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- [Roll] draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves (WAS: AD Re… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Roll] draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves (WAS: A… Ines Robles
- Re: [Roll] draft-ietf-roll-unaware-leaves (WAS: A… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)