Re: [Roll] Intend for draft-tripathi-roll-reactive-applicability
Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> Wed, 08 January 2014 04:48 UTC
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Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2014 05:47:51 +0100
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From: Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
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Cc: Ines Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Intend for draft-tripathi-roll-reactive-applicability
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On Tuesday, January 7, 2014, Ulrich Herberg wrote: > MANET WG has understood this more than a decade before that reactive > protocols can work in some scenarios, not in all. It is possible to create > scenarios where reactive protocols are better, and others where proactive > protocols are better. Claiming that, in general, for LLNs one is better > than the other is incorrect in my opinion. > There are difference between MANETs and LLNs scenarios. I never like general drafts without applicability statements. In LLN we should not categorise protocols only as reactive or proactive (that is manet routing categorised). > > > 3.1. Inability to support P2MP traffic pattern > > This very much depends on the use case. LOADng has been deployed in > several scenarios where P2MP traffic is sparse, and where few concurrent > traffic flows are used. This is not a theoretic scenario, but a deployment > that is actually used by some utilities. We have shown in [1] that in this > case, LOADng outperforms RPL by far. See also [5] further evaluations. Not > only has LOADng orders of magnitude less control traffic than RPL in the > investigated scenarios, but also the state requirements are far smaller. > Both references 1 and 5 are similar to this draft still not adopted or published by IETF. Any document author will argue for their doc but did any specify all LLN scenarios in the doc. > > > > 3.2. Inability to support MP2P traffic pattern > > There is an easy-to-implement extension to LOADng submitted as [2] that > solves this. Performance evaluations in [3] show the efficiency of the > solution. > The draft does not evaluate that protocol or possible solutions but it was saying reactive. > > > 4. Dependency of control overhead on application module > > This is a general observation of reactive protocols that the MANET WG has > understood more than a decade ago. > In IETF MANET is not LLN. Even in many work published outside-IETF they are different with different protocols. > 5. Flooding issues in LLNs > > It is correct that flooding causes a lot of overhead and battery drain. > But note that we also observed in [1] and [4] that RPL in downward mode > also causes a lot of control traffic, more than LOADng for a similar > scenario that is described in the draft. It again depends on the use case. > For example, with the extension proposed in [2], the performance for such > traffic in LOADng is at least as good as with RPL (see also [3]). Note that > in the described scenario, RPL would require an equal amount of state (in > storing mode), or lead to very long packets in non-storing mode and > therefore potential fragmentation, such as described in [4]. > I don't think we are comparing protocols but we need to compare flooding techniques in specific use cases. I think your references don't cover all use cases as well. > > > 6. Impact on memory > > This again depends on the use case. > Depends on many issues not only use cases. > > 7. Lack of support for routing based on node capability > > This argument is flawed. LOADng provides a very extensible and flexible > definition of route metrics. It is easy to create a metric that reflects > limitations of the nodes, such as energy and CPU/memory resource > limitations. How is this different from RPL? > >> >> I think both protocols don't have that is why I wanted to do a protocol for node capability, NAP, but still work in progress. > > > 8. High delay for emergency traffic > > While it is true that reactive protocols have a higher delay requirement > than proactive protocols, the argument is, again, flawed. The draft writes > "*Some* data in an LLN are delay sensitive by nature". I agree. It further > mentions industrial automation settings. Yes, in *some* LLNs, delay is > indeed critical (e.g., light switch), but in others it is not as much (AMI > metering). The draft argues that reactive protocols are bad for *all* LLNs, > but provides evidence only for *some*. This is exactly what the MANET WG > has agreed on in the 1990s that there is no one-size-fits-all. > > The draft should say: manet reactive protocols are bad for most LLNs, because no one in IETF has published that reactive protocols are good for all LLNs or even all MANETs. AB >
- [Roll] Intend for draft-tripathi-roll-reactive-ap… Ines Robles
- Re: [Roll] Intend for draft-tripathi-roll-reactiv… JP Vasseur (jvasseur)
- Re: [Roll] Intend for draft-tripathi-roll-reactiv… Ulrich Herberg
- Re: [Roll] Intend for draft-tripathi-roll-reactiv… Ines Robles
- Re: [Roll] Intend for draft-tripathi-roll-reactiv… Ulrich Herberg
- Re: [Roll] Intend for draft-tripathi-roll-reactiv… Abdussalam Baryun
- [Roll] Fwd: Intend for draft-tripathi-roll-reacti… Joydeep Tripathi
- Re: [Roll] Intend for draft-tripathi-roll-reactiv… Joydeep Tripathi
- [Roll] Fwd: Intend for draft-tripathi-roll-reacti… Joydeep Tripathi