Re: [Roll] Hosts part of the RPL instance? Re: definition of "RPL Domain"
Ulrich Herberg <ulrich@herberg.name> Thu, 17 November 2011 00:59 UTC
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From: Ulrich Herberg <ulrich@herberg.name>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:00:06 +0800
To: Mukul Goyal <mukul@uwm.edu>
Cc: "roll@ietf.org" <roll@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Hosts part of the RPL instance? Re: definition of "RPL Domain"
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My 2cts on the various terminology discussions: - An "RPL host" seems contradictory to me. Either it is a host, in which case it does not know anything about RPL, or it is an RPL router (leaf node or not, it still remains a router). We should allow for hosts (or be prepared to fight with the IAB for the next years why we think that we should break the IP architecture). - A question that comes to my mind: Is it specified anywhere how to add the RPL IP headers for the traffic direction to a data packet from a host received by an RPL router? - "RPL domain"; We should just stick to official terminology, i.e, "Routing Domain" in this case. I think it has been specified in RFC1136. - RPL traffic: I don't like the term. I would stick to either control traffic or data traffic. Everyone understands these terms. No need to invent new terms. Regards Ulrich On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:38, Mukul Goyal <mukul@uwm.edu> wrote: > I guess the desired behavior would be: > > A host sends out a message to its RPL router. The router adds RPL SRH or RPL option to the IPv6 header and forwards the message further. No need for IP-in-IP tunneling. Any error message comes back to the router and the router handles the message. The host just sends and receives messages. > > Thanks > Mukul > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mukul Goyal" <mukul@uwm.edu> > To: "Don Sturek" <d.sturek@att.net> > Cc: roll@ietf.org > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 12:29:59 PM > Subject: Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" > > Hi Don > > I dont want hosts to know about RPL. I just want the RPL routers to consider the hosts as part of the RPL instance so that the RPL router does not have to do IP-in-IP tunneling to forward packets generated by a host. > > Thanks > Mukul > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Don Sturek" <d.sturek@att.net> > To: "Mukul Goyal" <mukul@uwm.edu>, "Sébastien Dawans" <sebastien.dawans@cetic.be> > Cc: roll@ietf.org > Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 12:22:55 PM > Subject: Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" > > Hi Mukul, > > I guess my view on this is the opposite of yours. I would like to see > host-only devices not need to know anything about RPL. Here is why: > 1) Code savings. Removing RPL from these host only devices would allow > for deployment on smaller footprint devices > 2) Battery operated devices. Some host only devices are deployed on > non-mains powered devices. It would be nice for these devices to not have > to listen for any RPL control messages yet still support transmission into > a RPL routing domain. > > Don > > > > On 11/16/11 10:07 AM, "Mukul Goyal" <mukul@uwm.edu> wrote: > >> Hi Sebastien >> >> First, I would like to clarify that the need to define "RPL domain" arose >> because draft-ietf-6man-rpl-option and draft-ietf-6man-rpl-routing-header >> were using the term. Now, these drafts use the term "RPL instance" and >> hence there is no real need to define the term "RPL domain" any more. I >> will change draft-ietf-roll-p2p-measurement so that all references to >> "RPL domain" are changed to "RPL Instance". >> >> Now returning to the question whether hosts should be considered part of >> the RPL Instance, the benefit of doing so is that there is no need to use >> IP-in-IP tunneling when a host sends out some data. If a host is not >> considered part of the RPL Instance, its default RPL router is obliged to >> use IP-in-IP tunneling to forward the packet further. IP-in-IP tunneling >> means an extra IPv6 header and thus less space for payload if you want to >> avoid fragmentation. Also, if the packet is traveling along a DAG, the >> encapsulation/decapsulation needs to be done at every hop, which sounds >> fairly heavy duty processing to me. >> >> So, I would like to explore if there is a way we could consider hosts to >> be a part of the RPL Instance. >> >> Regards, >> Mukul >> >>> On what ground would you assume that a non-RPL aware host connected to a >>> RPL-router (in this case I would call it a border router) is in a/the >>> RPL Domain? >> >>> From what I've seen in the drafts, the term "RPL Domain"'s primary >>> purpose it to differentiate the limits of "RPL-aware" nodes for IP >>> traffic that needs to transit to or from a set of RPL-aware hosts (for >>> example, to define where to add/remove the RPL IPv6 Hop-by-Hop Option if >>> used). >> >>> To me, this interpretation of RPL Domain is thus only useful in a local >>> context and not to meant to designate one or more bounded set of nodes. >>> That's the role of DODAGs and Instances. >> >>> Best Regards, >> >>> Sébastien Dawans >> >> On 11/16/2011 02:20 PM, Mukul Goyal wrote: >>> So, the revised doubts are as follows: >>> >>> 1. It is clear that RPL routers are within an RPL domain but what about >>> the RPL-unaware IPv6 hosts attached to an RPL router? I would imagine >>> that such hosts are also within an RPL domain. >>> >>> 2. Is an RPL domain same as an RPL instance? Or is an RPL domain a set >>> of RPL instances in the LLN? Can multiple RPL domains exist within an >>> LLN? Or is it that an RPL domain is same as an LLN using RPL as a >>> routing protocol? >>> >>> THanks >>> Mukul >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Mukul Goyal"<mukul@uwm.edu> >>> To: "Thomas Heide Clausen"<thomas@thomasclausen.org> >>> Cc: "roll"<roll@ietf.org> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 7:15:59 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" >>> >>> >>>> Now that we are at it: what is an RPL host? Or rather, why is this >>>> even a conceivable thing to define? Afaik, RPL is a routing protocol, >>>> and as such should concern only routers - not hosts? >>>> >>> My bad. By RPL host, I actually meant an RPL leaf node. I think this >>> term "RPL host" was in use at one point in time but I cant find a >>> reference to it in current spec. >>> >>> THanks >>> Mukul >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Thomas Heide Clausen"<thomas@thomasclausen.org> >>> To: "Mukul Goyal"<mukul@uwm.edu> >>> Cc: "JP Vasseur"<jpv@cisco.com>, "roll"<roll@ietf.org> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 6:25:31 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" >>> >>> Now that we are at it: what is an RPL host? Or rather, why is this even >>> a conceivable thing to define? Afaik, RPL is a routing protocol, and as >>> such should concern only routers - not hosts? >>> >>> I worry if this is inventing an entire ecosystem which "pretends to be >>> just like the Internet, except it is not", as it needs entirely new >>> stacks, protocols, translators/gateways everywhere, and with no real >>> traces of IP as we know it remaining? >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Roll mailing list >> Roll@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >> _______________________________________________ >> Roll mailing list >> Roll@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Mukul Goyal
- [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Mukul Goyal
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Dijk, Esko
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" JP Vasseur
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Thomas Heide Clausen
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Mukul Goyal
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Thomas Heide Clausen
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Jeff Apcar (japcar)
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Thomas Heide Clausen
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Mukul Goyal
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Mukul Goyal
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Thomas Heide Clausen
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" C Chauvenet
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" C Chauvenet
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Sébastien Dawans
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Jonathan Hui
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Thomas Heide Clausen
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Thomas Heide Clausen
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Jonathan Hui
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Thomas Heide Clausen
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Mukul Goyal
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Jonathan Hui
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Thomas Heide Clausen
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Angelo P. Castellani
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Jonathan Hui
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" C Chauvenet
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Thomas Heide Clausen
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Dijk, Esko
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Don Sturek
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Juergen Schoenwaelder
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Thomas Heide Clausen
- [Roll] RPL traffic Re: definition of "RPL Domain" Mukul Goyal
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Philip Levis
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Thomas Heide Clausen
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Don Sturek
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Mukul Goyal
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Don Sturek
- [Roll] Hosts part of the RPL instance? Re: defini… Mukul Goyal
- Re: [Roll] Hosts part of the RPL instance? Re: de… Ulrich Herberg
- Re: [Roll] Hosts part of the RPL instance? Re: de… Yvonne-Anne Pignolet
- Re: [Roll] Hosts part of the RPL instance? Re: de… Emmanuel Baccelli
- Re: [Roll] Hosts part of the RPL instance? Re: de… Robert Cragie
- Re: [Roll] Hosts part of the RPL instance? Re: de… Jonathan Hui
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Mukul Goyal
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" Mukul Goyal
- Re: [Roll] definition of "RPL Domain" JP Vasseur