Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-turnon-rfc8138-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com> Fri, 18 September 2020 15:47 UTC
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From: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2020 08:47:14 -0700
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To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
Cc: "draft-ietf-roll-turnon-rfc8138@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-roll-turnon-rfc8138@ietf.org>, Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>, Ines Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>, "roll-chairs@ietf.org" <roll-chairs@ietf.org>, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-turnon-rfc8138-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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[Cutting the list a little.] Pascal: Hi! I think we should talk live about this — if there’s time on the Interim (Inés?), then maybe we can do it there since the RPLv2 topic seems to be on the agenda. Or we could do it before — give me a couple of options for next week. It would be ideal to have you, Michael and one of the Chairs, at least, on the call — we can of course open the call to anyone once we figure out a time that works. Thanks! Alvaro. On September 18, 2020 at 10:15:24 AM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) ( pthubert@cisco.com) wrote: Hello Benjamin and Alvaro I published the latest to have a fresh reference point. There seems to be an agreement that 1) we need to tell the implementer what to do when MOP ==7 2) The changes are updating RFC 6550 formally. This is reflected in draft 15 as published. Please let me know if I mossed something! Take care, Pascal Pascal > -----Original Message----- > From: Pascal Thubert (pthubert) > Sent: vendredi 11 septembre 2020 21:17 > To: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> > Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>; Routing Over Low power > and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>; roll-chairs@ietf.org; Alvaro Retana > <aretana.ietf@yahoo.com>; Ines Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>; > draft-ietf-roll-turnon-rfc8138@ietf.org; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-roll-turnon-rfc8138- > 14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > Now I’m unsure Michael and I agree anymore. > > What will today’s developer code? > > We ask him to test if mop is < 7 > > What value will the developer place in his code if the test returns false? > > If there is no code the Boolean will be uninitialized and the result will depend > on the type of variable and the compiler. > > Whatever the developer does the code will end up having a behavior, > compression or not. > > Leaving it to the implementation will have some people choose true and > others false. This is not what we want. > > We want to control what the code does so we can expect it in the future and > build our backward compatibility based on that sure knowledge. > > Before the draft the default was no compression. Quite naturally since initially > it did not exist. > > Also we discussed on the ML that for RPLv2 all implementations MUST support > the compression. > > In which case it is a better default for a coder today to decide to use the > compression for mop 7, isn’t it? > > I hope I make the case right. Just think you’re coding it! > > Take care, > > Pascal > > > Le 11 sept. 2020 à 18:26, Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> a écrit : > > > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 12:23:50PM -0400, Michael Richardson wrote: > >> > >> Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> wrote: > >>> to MOPs 0..6; but the situation for MOP 7 seems slightly different. > >>> If we were *just* leaving the bit undefined/free for reuse in that > >>> situation, that is probably also something that we can do in a > >>> normal "allocate a bit from an IANA registry" document without need for > Updates. > >> > >> Up to here, we agree. > >> > >>> But that's not > >>> all we're doing; we're also saying that if you see MOP==7, then you > >>> have to use the 8138 > >>> header/compression/whatever-we-end-up-calling-it. Yet we are > >>> *not* allocating MOP==7. > >> > >> Tthat's exactly what we don't want to do. > >> > >> We are saying NOTHING about rfc8138 when MOP==7. > >> Nor are we saying that the T-bit exists (or doesn't exist). > > > > That's not how I read: > > > > For a MOP value of 7, the compression MUST be used by default > > regardless of the setting of the "T" flag. > > > > > >> What behaviour is default and what behaviour is negotiated, and how > >> it it negotiated, and how the results are turned on, would be up to a > >> document that specifies MOP=7 (or larger mopex) > > > > What you describe here is more along the lines of what I expected. > > > > -Ben > > > >> As an analogy, when we did the ToS->DSCP + bits-that-became-ECN > >> change, we did this for IP_version==4 and IP_version==6. > >> We specifically did not change it for IP_version==7 or 8. > >> > >> -- > >> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca> . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting ) > >> Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide > >> > > > >
- [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-rol… Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Martin Duke
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Martin Duke
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Martin Duke
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Michael Richardson
- [Roll] Agenda for Monday (Re: MOP==7 live discuss… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Roll] Agenda for Monday (Re: MOP==7 live dis… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] Agenda for Monday (Re: MOP==7 live dis… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Roll] Agenda for Monday (Re: MOP==7 live dis… Ines Robles
- Re: [Roll] Agenda for Monday (Re: MOP==7 live dis… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Alvaro Retana
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Martin Duke
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Benjamin Kaduk
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Martin Duke
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Martin Duke
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Roll] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf… Martin Duke