Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated...If not now, when"

Maik Merten <maikmerten@googlemail.com> Thu, 14 November 2013 20:20 UTC

Return-Path: <maikmerten@googlemail.com>
X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EDA821E8132 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:20:30 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.299
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pk4jdvYhlfl9 for <rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:20:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-bk0-x22c.google.com (mail-bk0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4008:c01::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D39021E8115 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:20:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-bk0-f44.google.com with SMTP id d7so1302113bkh.31 for <rtcweb@ietf.org>; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:20:28 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=3iktQk55y1l6JqN+qPu+3NsY8tY2MhbyfaEBzS4JxwM=; b=NjgPwCsWoI23882G1wCEiNSYnMw5WoXlOuVof3YaEDd3Q08uV34WabmfrnwvPbNexr h8zZZq6GHKFagrs/FMZF6PI+h8OsymGWrtOcs0lNVa+cfqVFQn8zOIspqUUvcMZw8q5L lf+hKjp2HKO5LzeKyNFB9b7kQhfATdRIdSALLSfBd+CqYDY756NelruM7z4hvUCAnmR3 Nef6zCLEqwHMLpCtPCUU5pmKS6+goDqoNuJGq87YwQHZ7+yaO33POjtyR5CAoVOYVJnL U9R2yxxVBMGtfzQq0c9h+2Z885Kf3jSzA6kXYOuDjwcJdatg6EmXrmuPF7i7Dt944Q5N 8cig==
X-Received: by 10.205.106.193 with SMTP id dv1mr677302bkc.95.1384460428229; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:20:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.2.101] (dslb-088-078-139-230.pools.arcor-ip.net. [88.78.139.230]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id m1sm127925bkr.10.2013.11.14.12.20.26 for <rtcweb@ietf.org> (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:20:27 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <52853089.2050204@googlemail.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:20:25 +0100
From: Maik Merten <maikmerten@googlemail.com>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: rtcweb@ietf.org
References: <5282A340.7010405@gondwanaland.com> <20131113165526.GA13468@verdi> <5283E700.5090300@bbs.darktech.org> <CACKRbQf=x-wKUFemNhf4ZDwgZzqBFq=okUMw=BLCwaMmE7OJPw@mail.gmail.com> <5283FDF1.8030708@bbs.darktech.org> <D9D602D39A98E34D9C43E965BEC7439834E61DE3@nambx08.corp.adobe.com> <52845DB0.6040501@bbs.darktech.org> <5284626C.8050504@goodadvice.pages.de> <528471AA.4060101@bbs.darktech.org> <52847646.9050203@goodadvice.pages.de> <CAHp8n2=AqL0f8VF8XbX=ZXWz2gY2AUG7PbUQ6822qw6r-v3kMg@mail.gmail.com> <CA+23+fERg2Suz1NO5mnJpmK1priEkmBzk5UxybC9b3zBjyPyNQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CA+23+fERg2Suz1NO5mnJpmK1priEkmBzk5UxybC9b3zBjyPyNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] ~"I'd love it if patents evaporated...If not now, when"
X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list <rtcweb.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb>
List-Post: <mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb>, <mailto:rtcweb-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 20:20:30 -0000

Am 14.11.2013 20:41, schrieb Jonathan Rosenberg:
> I also disagree with the assertion that H.261 video is better than audio
> only. Video quality matters and I believe the higher quality we've been
> able to achieve in recent years due to the combo of better tech (ala
> H.264) along with faster networks is a material factor in the acceptance
> of video by end users. I think folks writing the apps should decide
> whether lousy video is good enough, and for business usage the answer is no.

Well, as long as there is a MTI video codec, even if it is H.261 or 
MPEG-1, users at least have a *choice* if the transferred video content 
suits their needs. There can always be a "mute video" option for 
situations where the video content is not useful, no matter what the reason.

Also codecs such as H.261/MPEG-1 would only be chosen during negotiation 
if everything else has failed. IMO they at least cover the "talking 
head" scenario quite decently, even with bitrates in the region of 
256-384 kbit/s. For me, this is "G.711, but for video" and often more 
useful than "no video at all" - albeit not always (e.g., in your 
business use case).

(Personally, I'd even prefer ASCII-video over "no video forced onto the 
user in case of negotiation failure" - although I'd choose 
PETSCII-video, based on the character set of Commodore's 8-bit computers 
for added awesome. PETSCII has some well designed graphical symbols 
which may prove useful in a number of scenarios.)


Best regards,

Maik