Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions....

David Singer <> Tue, 09 December 2014 19:31 UTC

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From: David Singer <>
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Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 11:31:23 -0800
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To: Adam Roach <>
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Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Video codecs: Clear positions....
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> On Dec 9, 2014, at 11:20 , Adam Roach <> wrote:
> On 12/9/14 13:08, Bernard Aboba wrote:
>> [BA] I agree that the vast majority of people answering probably believe that the requirements don't apply to the non-browser category, but actually the proposal is that dual MTI does apply to non-browsers, right? It's just the WebRTC-compatible endpoints that are exempt.  So it's actually worse than "those other people should do it" - it's really "I intend to ignore the requirements myself and pretend that they don't apply to me while holding other people to  them".
> So, even though no one has stood up and said as much, you're hypothesizing that some vast majority of people who disagree with you must be doing so only because they're bad actors? I think you need more evidence than what amounts to a conspiracy theory if you're going to level that kind of accusation.

Jeepers, guys, do we have to resort to this kind of language?  

I honestly DO NOT KNOW how many endpoints, of any kind, would expect to support both codecs.  Getting a rough sense of that would be really useful. Happily I don’t need to care about why people land where they do, how conspiratorial, deceitful, or anything they may be. In fact, I expect most people are trying to do their best, balancing everything. But I don’t know what that means.

That’s why I said that saying that a WebRTC implementation, in a browser, is not a WebRTC Browser but a WebRTC-Compatible Endpoint, though formally possible, is questionable — it would appear to be skirting the intent of the spec.

For example, I *think* that Firefox would if H.264 is either available on the platform, or available via the Cisco download for that platform. So if I am right, they get pretty close.  Beyond that, who knows?

So, please, can we assume people are trying to do the best they can?

David Singer
Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.